Budget supporting Middle England

[Bearbehind]

On what planet is is right that a couple earning £100k plus are over £1,000 better off when a couple earning £25k between them are £150 better off after the budget.

And the latter probably voted Leave in order to shake up the establishment.

David Runciman in his latest Talking Politics podcast suggests that a bad brexit presents an ‘existential threat’ to the tories, ‘the most successful election winning machine in 200 years

I wonder if there's a point where Remainers think that if we have to have Brexit, getting rid of the Tories forever isn't such a bad deal after all ?

It's certainly how I'm starting to think.

It's an appealing vision ... a clifftop wrestle between being in the EU and the Tories. The Tories manage to throw being in the EU off a cliff but immediately follow the same trajectory ...

I wonder if there's a point where Remainers think that if we have to have Brexit, getting rid of the Tories forever isn't such a bad deal after all

Dictatorships take a few decades to remove.

The 'other's, poor, women, disabled, children and opposition are simply eliminated.

In the case of the current so called tory party currently; deported and impverished to death.

And we are still in the EU.

When there is no food and medicine the 120 000 death rate due to the above will seem miniscule.

Depends how much you want to apply historic political allegiances to a currently dysfunctional totalitarian state.

@DGRossetti - I see your point about the despicable Tories but I don't want to see a Corbynite Labour Party running the show - this is, I think, his game plan.

@DGRossetti - I see your point about the despicable Tories but I don't want to see a Corbynite Labour Party running the show - this is, I think, his game plan.

You know something ?

At this stage of the game, I don't care. I really don't. By all means let the Tories deliver the Brexit they so clearly crave. If that means they have to suffer their worst nightmare - a Corbynite government - then tough. They should have governed for the many, not the few.

Brexiteers aren't the only one capable of making sacrifices for their dreams. I'd happily suffer a Corbyn government it it killed the Tories.

Either I'm odd and alone, or there are others that understand where I'm coming from.

@DGRossetti - I entirely understand your position here. I've been mulling over whether as an older Jewish/Irish heritage woman with a long memory about Corbyn sucking up to the IRA and to anti-semites, I could hold my nose enough to vote Labour. I'm not there right now. It depends how bad it gets.

I am fortunately not in a Labour/Tory marginal, but if I were, I could just about hold my nose to vote for Labour, and not for the Tories. Labour don't seem to have the same degree of hatred for ordinary people that the Tories have. Nor do I think the Tories are any less anti-semitic. I imagine there that it's just what's expected of the Tories.

I've been mulling over whether as an older Jewish/Irish heritage woman with a long memory about Corbyn sucking up to the IRA and to anti-semites, I could hold my nose enough to vote Labour. I'm not there right now. It depends how bad it gets

I never could and the latest on the files that have been passed onto the met confirm it further.

You don't have to vote Corbyn to oppose this shambolic so-called government. Vote for the Liberal Democrats.

There hasn't been a Liberal government for 100 years and there won't be another one anytime soon.

Voting LibDem will take votes from Labour and ensure we have another 5 years (at least) of the Tories.

jas I would be the last to defend TM, I think she’s dangerous, but really, what does Corbyns labour offer that is any better?

There’s no point in voting for Labour just to out the Tories if they can’t do any better.

They want life long learning and invest in education, fund Adult social care, reverse cuts in corporation tax and IHT, increase taxes for those at the very top and before anyone says that cause an exodus of the wealthy.. no it wouldn't because a: 83% of billionaires live in their country of birth and b; our new tax rates would still be reasonable in an international comparison.

They are not bound to the DUP or have a large anti EU wing.... i believe they'd either stop brexit or renegotiate a SM/CU deal if we'd already left.
May has no future invested in the UK, she is interested in power for powers sake, she is a cruel and evil woman, her time at the HO proves this and quite frankly, my cat Molly would show more mercy to a dying mouse than she'd show to a trafficked woman or someone from the Windrush generation.

Voting LibDem will take votes from Labour and ensure we have another 5 years (at least) of the Tories.

I don't know what i will di yet but there is no way I will vote Labour whilst Corbyn is in charge. If he becomes PM my family and I will most likely leave the country.

jas I find your unswerving adoration of the Labour Party nearly as foolish as that of Leavers support for Brexit.

Corbyn himself is anti - EU just for starters.

What I mean by that is it’s based on ideology not reality.

I am appalled that the budget has given a bribe to higher tax payers, but not surprised.

@Bearbehind

Well, i don't, i ve never said that nor implied it, i think you'll find i ve said on several occasions that JC is a poor leader and that i don't support their Brexit stance.
tbh i don't need some condescending comment explaining to me that JC is anti-EU, Labour have not ruled out a referendum and in negotiation they want membership of both SM and a CU, it ain't the EU but in the present circumstance is 1000% better than currently on offer.

I told you a few of Labours policies that clearly set them apart from the Tories, unfortunately all your and others MSM anti-Corbyn stance is going to get you is another 5 or 10 years of the Tories.... which is exactly what the Tory supporting media (and the party) want, well done!

Considering what they ve managed to do in just 3 years of sole tory government, that should be very worrying for us all.

I’m not being condescending jas I am asserting my point that Labour’s problem is Corbyn.

You are correct in that Labour generally don’t have the anti EU faction that the Tories do but the fact that Corbyn is anti EU is the whole problem.

His words and actions are not commensurate with Labours general views.

Hence the problem.

And why any Labour supporters are not furious about that is beyond me.

Hi @Bear

From a BBC article on JC's beliefs in 2015..

16: Remaining in the European Union but with changes. Corbyn says he is not content with the EU as it stands, but wants to stay to fight for a "better Europe". He had previously refused to rule out campaigning to leave. He also opposes the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal.

If Labour had opposed the 2016 result, the MSM would have portrayed him and Labour as a anti democratic Stalinist party (even more than they do already!) and their popularity would be down there with the LibDems.

Had Labour been in charge of these negotiations, we'd be in a far better place, an EFTA style deal and distinct possibility of staying in the EU.

What i'd like to know is why Tory voters on less than 50k aren't up in arms over this give-away budget to the very wealthy?

Shame people don' treat their politicians like they are advised to treat their insurance provider, and shop around every election for the best deal, rather than sticking with someone out of inertia and end up disadvantaged by them as they offer better polices to new customers voters.

If you have voted Labour all your life, it's unlikely they Labour party is going to much to secure your vote. Ditto Tories.

Maybe there's a gap for a political policy aggregator ? Put in your circumstances, and it advises who polices are best for you. www.comparethebullshit.com ?

FWIW i'd like to see a new party, taking the best from the Tories and Labour.
The LibDems are toxic, stuck on 12% ish, Clegg almost destroyed them by going into coalition and Vince Cable is finishing the job.

However, there is no new party and its all very well saying we must shop around etc but there is no market alternative to the current 2 party Governmental system :(

In my political life, i ve voted Green, Labour, Tory and LibDem, due to FPTP, the first 2 are a wasted vote.

jas what is the point in quoting Corbyn’s beliefs in 2015.

I really do find this most peculiar.

This conversation came about because people will not vote to support Corbyn. Everything you’ve said has confirmed that, not disputed it.

The options are pitiful but the only way I’d overlook Corbyns leadership is if Labour stood on a Remain ticket.

The options are pitiful but the only way I’d overlook Corbyns leadership is if Labour stood on a Remain ticket

Surely though that would mean you are voting Labour on one policy only and aligning yourself with a party who are dubious to say the least with regard to anti-semitism/women’s issues. That is then no different to anyone voting Conservatives with the accusation that they are aligning themselves to a Brexit/racist party?

The choices are pitiful.

There are other labour policies I align myself with, it’s just that they are not outweighed by the thought of Corbyn being leader.

DH and I do both earn £50k plus and historically have been Tory voters.

We both spoilt our ballot papers at the GE as the choices were so dire.

This conversation came about because people will not vote to support Corbyn. Everything you’ve said has confirmed that, not disputed it

That's fine but don't complain when you ve another 2 terms of the Tories.

What i really struggle with all these people who detest the Tories, moan like Fcuk about Brexit (and all that it will bring) right wing policies from tax to immigration, obsession with austerity and then vote in a manner which will ensure they'll stay in power......

Spoiling your ballot paper is childish, do you really think that any candidate gives a dam you both did that? even if 70% did it, they'd still take the win and thank you for your efforts.

I did always think spoiling a ballot paper was a stupid thing to do but when you are faced with the choices being completely unpalatable, what else can you do?

At least it is registered than you did bother to turn up.

My issue here is you appear to want a Labour government just so it’s not a Tory one.

That doesn’t cut it for me.

It’s as shallow as many Leavers assertion that we should leave the EU just so we are no longer part of it.

Labour have an unelectable leader who goes out of his way to avoid challenging anything Brexit related because he actually supports us leaving, contrary to many in his party.

They are no better than the Tories and I will not vote for them just to oust the Tories unless they promise to deliver something different ie SM/CU.

Besides, there’s no GE planned, and if the Sunday Times article today is to be believed then the Tory turn on SM/CU will be imminent.

By the time the next planned GE comes around the Tories will have been destroyed by the fact Brexit hasn’t delivered the sunlit upland it offered and JC hopefully won’t be leader so it will be an entirely different proposition.