People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

Exactly, Mrs, you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.

My parents, my grandparents, my extended family of the same age group and all their friends voted to leave. I don’t think they were thick for doing so but I do believe they were mislead by the vote leave campaign.

And given that leave leaders went back on promises almost immediately after the vote plus everything that’s happened since - some of them are starting to feel let down and mislead now.

Not sure I can handle another ref as it’s been so difficult with family since. I’d prefer someone in Government to stand up and say this is too economically damaging to see through.

The 52/48 split was close (and only 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU) yet the government are driving the hardest Brexit possible with a strong possibility now of a complete crash out.

I can accept leaving the EU but I can’t accept doing so in such an unnecessarily damaging manner because of the desire of extreme hard line Tories.

Want to heal the divide in this country? Then the government needs to stop ignoring the 48%.

You think half the country are thick xenophobes?

Not half, maybe 20 - 30%, just google the demographics of leave voters, lower earning, lower educational attainment, less likely to be in work and of course xenophobic.

Have a look at the guy on the Ryanair flight and look at the passengers (laughing in the background) who went to assist that woman being abused (one or two) RyanAir's attitude to it and imagine if it had been a black man abusing a disabled white woman?

This country has some very racist people in it, always has, it may be illegal but the attitudes still persist and Brexit gave them a nice big voice for their views.

Buteo is spot on. The only way to avoid a constitutional and/or economic crisis now is to work towards a compromise, ie a Norway + type relationship with the EU (with either just NI or the whole UK in a customs union with the EU).

May made two mistakes

• prematurely triggering A50 when she had no plan
• drawing red lines that excluded any soft Brexit and emboldened the ERG

The march had a mixed, maybe muddled message. Some wanted a new referendum, some wanted a vote on the nature of the deal within Brexit.

All wanted to express dissatisfaction with our clueless, in-fighting , point scoring, self interested politicians, putting their personal agendas above the good of the people.

That’s why I went.

A bit like how many leavers voted in tne first place: as a protest vote x

That's not to say I am in favour of Norway + of course (I'm not). I just don't see any other say this doesn't end in a crisis.

Sounds about righ, Venus, I think the referendum was very much chance for a protest vote, just on misplaced / misled issues.

I agree Norway is the only sensible option. I'm still going to find it hard to forgive people as Norway is worse than we have now.

Norway+ is a worse deal than our current EU membership, but is way, way better than anything the Government has put forward, thanks to May’s red lines. It would be the compromise that satisfies the 52% vote to Leave but encompasses the 48% Remain.

Do you reckon that was the plan? Annoy is enough so that we accept Norway as the least worst option.

I think that credits May with too much guile - I think she’s just lurched from one crisis to another as she’s hamstrung by the DUP and the ERG.

I think you are right. I'm not sure she's that bright, which is what the ERG counted on.

Agree that Norway+ (i.e. EEA/EFTA + CU) will avoid the worst of the damage but ...

Leavers please look at why this is a significantly worse option than our current situation as per Mitsigri's point. We will move to rule-takers not rule-makers it will exacerbate the sense of EU dominance without sufficient voice.

Our best option is to reverse Brexit and to engage more closely with EU, address the issues and shape it to our (and other nations') benefit. There are other countries that don't agree with the concept of ceaseless political and economic integration, there are other countries aware of the issues with the Euro and that the solution is fiscal as well as financial union which their populations don't want etc... UK is/was almost uniquely well-placed help lead the way to a sensible political solution to these problems.

Leavers, while EEA/EFTA+CU is achievable and a whole lot better than our current trajectory, it also gives up our ability to lead the EU in a better direction - applying sensible limits to FoM, FoC etc. You don't just need to compromise, you need to a full u-turn to get what you want.

My heart says stay - actually so does my head.

My compromise is stay Norway and then think about what next. And if we're v lucky we can rejoin.

Agree but if we leave to later rejoin, we will likely have to accept the Euro which comes at significant sovereignty and political cost (note we should assume the rebate is gone already). Like you I would accept Norway+ but this throws away our EU position entirely whereas in-fact (despite our own incompetence) it is still rescuable but only if reasonable/responsible leavers come to this realisation.

If we don't have another vote, we're all going to wish we had a year from now.

But I agree that there probably won't be one because our leaders don't want one. Even the so-called remainers don't want one. Weird that, isn't it!

We already voted.
We voted to LEAVE.

If we were to be SO stupid as to have another vote, and God forbid we voted to stay ... do you really think they would have us back? Really?

Get over it.

"Get over it". Thank goodness you said that. I've never heard that before. It solves everything.

Have us back??? We haven't left yet.

Why are leavers incapable of grasping this very simple fact?

I feel really thick asking this BUT please can someone tell me that the People’s Vote is a would be vote on whether to leave the EU or not (pretty much a repeat referendum)

ORRRR

is it a vote for “what kind is Brexit would you like, hard or soft?”

Sorry to crash in

"Get over it" is precisely why this divide exists.

A 52/48 result in a referendum is a result that demands the seeking of a consensus.

@PaulHollywoodsSexGut I think most pro-people's vote people would want a three way vote between the status quo, no deal, and whatever deal May is able to cobble together (if she can get a deal). Perhaps done in such a way that people were asked to rank their choices, so that second choice options could also be taken into account.

Or in the absence of a deal, between no deal and the status quo.

My personal view is that there is (a) no time and (b) asking ordinary people for simple answers to complex questions is a fucking stupid thing to do, but in a situation where all choices are bad, a new referendum may be the least worst choice.

As for "have us back". We had a sweet deal. No schengen. No euro. GFA working ok.
We won't get that again if we reapply once we've left.
I wish we could stay but some people have spoken.

Here come the reasoned critical thinkers with their arguments of 'get over it's.

Ever wondered why you feel so uncomfortable?