People’s Vote Delusion

[PersonaNonGarter]

It isn’t going to happen. For the following reasons:

1. May Government won’t vote for a second referendum
2. No new post-May Tory Government will vote for a second referendum
3. Jeremy Corbyn and those in the Labour Party front benches won’t vote for a second referendum
4. There is no agreement about what the referendum would ask.
5. There is no plausible timetable for a referendum.

Why would Corbyn want a second referendum? He is a Leaver wanting to win in Leave seats. And he wants to implement his domestic agenda, not waste any further time on Brexit votes. The current situation SUITS him.

jasjas a lot of trade done over the NI/ ROL border will be by 'trusted traders' so they can use that system so no need to check them. Much if any checking wouldn't be done at a border anyway. So why do you think that won't work?

Could you explain what is wrong with requiring actual facts to back up suggestions or views anyway?

Tell us more about 'trusted traders'. If I currently want to sell something from Oxfordshire to someone in London, I don't need anything to explain my status as a trader. Even if checking is done away from a border, it's not frictionless - it's just effectively shifting the border.

Staying in the SM and CU would prevent any disruption on the Irish border. An announcement that we were currently negotiating this would bring an immediate economic boost as so many businesses who have been delaying investment would have the needed reassurance.

So with this (relatively) simple option open to us why not just take it? If this had been the line taken two years ago we could be heading towards Exit Day with relative smoothness.

HFPA much as I think that would be our best option, it begs the question WTF was the point in Brexit at all as we'd be in a worse position than before, albeit a better position than with Hard Brexit.

Trusted trader schemes still require customs declarations, and are expensive to join.

So that blows the argument about trusted traders being OK for the RoI/NI border, out of the water.

much as I think that would be our best option, it begs the question WTF was the point in Brexit at all as we'd be in a worse position than before, albeit a better position than with Hard Brexit.

Of course. But we're in a situation where all options are bad - there is simply no way out that will not leave a legacy of bitterness and division. It's clear the Referndum should never have been held - or at least that the Leave side should never have been allowed to fight it without a very clear proposition, as the Scottish Yes campaign was obliged to do.

I think that a Soft Brexit is the option with the best chance of healing the divisions over the long term but as I said, nothing is good.

When did Brexiteers forget that they wanted to control the movement of people?

Their bold vision for the NI border is now to allow someone to fly into Dublin from an EU member state, take the bus up to Belfast and hop on a ferry to Liverpool.

So that blows the argument about trusted traders being OK for the RoI/NI border, out of the water.

Yup. This in an interesting snippet on Trusted Trader schemes and the NI border:

www.lloydsloadinglist.com/freight-directory/news/Trusted-traders-%E2%80%98no-panacea%E2%80%99-for-Brexit-border-challenges/71860.htm#.W9cRxGj7RPY

WTF was the point in Brexit at all as we'd be in a worse position than before, albeit a better position than with Hard Brexit.

Remember it was all about getting rid of the European immigrants who boosted Our public finances by more than £20 billion between 2001 and 2011. ( UCL figures before the ref.)

I don't cut May any slack - I think she still wants to get rid of foreigners at any price. If she didn't she call an NI ref on whether they want a border and use that as a get out of jail free card.

Could you explain what is wrong with requiring actual facts to back up suggestions or views anyway?

Apparently, it's because no-one knows the future so there's no point trying to plan for it. God help us if any in the military, law enforcement, health care or politics actually believed that - our key institutions would fall straight over because no-one bothered with scenario planning and analysis.

(Hint: you can break Brexit down into things like, "if this treaty becomes null & void overnight, and that treaty becomes null & void overnight, then what would happen? And then just keep scaling up until you've covered all 250-odd treaties that we need to sort out to even keep things like planes in the air, of which we've done fewer than 50 so far. OOPS.)

Over one million people have now signed The Independent’s petition calling for the British public to be given a Final Say on Brexit in a new referendum. That means this is the biggest petition Change.org have run from the UK this year.

The petition reached the milestone on Saturday afternoon, just three months after it was launched and amid deadlock in negotiations with Brussels and growing concern over a looming no-deal Brexit or the possibility of a deal that does not prove to be popular with the public.

Theresa May has refused to contemplate a new referendum – but the matter may eventually be taken out of her hands, with odds on the prime minister finding any deal parliament can approve dwindling.

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal/u/23503451?cs_tk=ARWfXXXMq1sHKmgQ21sAYYBxs8bFKc2lboJ8vky3kw%3D%3D&utm_campaign=3c3067497d704a8098315976b6c50c51&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs