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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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Thread gallery
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CardinalSin · 28/09/2018 11:16

Oops, yes Mark Steel. Getting my Marks wrong...

1tisILeClerc · 28/09/2018 11:17

{UK nationals would suffer under skills-based immigration, EU tells Javid }
Guardian (online) headline.

Buteo · 28/09/2018 11:32

The 2nd ref thread with the great rant is here (rant is on P5):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3377424-To-wonder-if-a-second-vote-is-possible?pg=5&order=

Has Boris has his leadership contest hopeful haircut?

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 12:17

Bit of German humour (yes ! really !!)

From Spiegel Online.... uncontrolled Brexit vs controlled Brexit:

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
FishesaPlenty · 28/09/2018 14:03

It is like a line Baldrick might have said to Blackadder.

It's classic Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't it? I can hear him saying it as I read it.

DarlingNikita · 28/09/2018 15:40

Place mat king. Thanks as ever, Red.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 15:42

.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Quietrebel · 28/09/2018 15:45

DGR
Your pic looks like Deliverance meets Shaun of the Dead.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 15:47
Grin

I feel a tad sorry for Brexiteers. After all what amusing memes can they post about the downsides of being in the EU ? After all, you'd think one or two would have learned to read by now. It's been over 2 years since the referendum.

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 16:42

Meanwhile, on this beautiful autumn day, look who decided to pop onto our neighbours shed (via our lawn ...)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Mrsr8 · 28/09/2018 16:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

missclimpson · 28/09/2018 16:58

I believe it is called flightless partridge. 😀

DGRossetti · 28/09/2018 17:04

I'd feel a little (but just a little) guilty at offing "squirry" as things stand. I'm not starving, and it seems a little mean to suddenly decide he/she is fair game all of a sudden. I'm sure Lewis Carroll had the same sentiments ...

"It seems a shame", the Walrus said, "to play them such a trick."
"After we've led them out so far, and made them trot so quick."

However, if I or DW were hungry, and that was the only source of protein ... squirry burger it is ... I'd have to brush up on my snares though.

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 17:18

There is a sweet chesnut tree on the way to DS's nursery which is dropping like mad.

I think it would make a nice stuffing. To go with the squirrel.

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BestIsWest · 28/09/2018 17:18

Boris haircut is a bit worrying.

FishesaPlenty · 28/09/2018 17:26

Bloody grey squirrels, coming over here eating our nuts.

BestIsWest · 28/09/2018 17:45

Plaid Cymru have a new leader then. Leanne Wood came third in the vote.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 17:49

"It seems a shame", the Walrus said, "to play them such a trick."
"After we've led them out so far, and made them trot so quick."

It's odd you should quote that because whenever I see the just about managing Leave voters trotting after and trusting May, JRM, Boris etc this Illustration comes into my head. With Leavers trotting along instead of the oysters ..

"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach.."

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
BestIsWest · 28/09/2018 17:54

If you can find it online still, Plaid’s video celebrating Adam Price’s election is something to behold (they’ve deleted it).

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 18:07

Boris haircut is a bit worrying.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45680514
Brexit: Boris Johnson refuses to rule out Theresa May challenge

Johnson interview with Laura Kuennsberg

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2018 18:10

Barnier announces he will continue with Brexit negotiations, instead of standing to be the EU Commision head

Michel Barnier@MichelBarnier
I have decided today not to run for the nomination as the @EPP’s European elections lead campaigner at #EPPHelsinki.

It is my duty and responsibility to continue the #Brexit negotiations right to the end.

The system currently is that the candidate of the party that wins the most seats in the European election to be made Commission president

Brexit negotiations were originally scheduled to be finished by June, just final confirmation of Withdrawal Agreement by heads of govt in October before completing the approval process in the European Parliament
(and possibly the 33 national & regional parliaments if sufficient trade was included in the WA)

The delay means that Barnier can't do both (properly)
so his sense of duty means he chose to complete Brexit negotiations, rather than his career plan.

Complete contrast to Boris, May, Gove, DD ...
i.e. the UK's elected representatives.

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 18:10

And he's serious and solemn.

No wiff waffing.

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RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 18:15

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
6pm BBC breaking

Boost for Theresa May ... as Boris Johnson tells @bbclaurak that EU WILL accept Chequers

- Although EU “formally” rejecting Chequers for now, he says in time they will accept “something like it”, according to Johnson BBC I/v

TRANSCRIPT:

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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FishesaPlenty · 28/09/2018 18:18

'...the Irish issue gained in salience I think... perhaps not quite deservedly"

Imbecile.

Can anyone really think that any of these Tory caricatures are suitable PM material? They are literally unknowing caricatures.

I was about to say, 'how could anyone want these caricatures to run the country' but then I remembered Charlie Chaplin Hitler.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 18:19

He said

“The Irish issue gained in salience, perhaps not deservedly

So the UK/ NI /Irish border is undeserving of salience?