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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 18:20

Cross post Fishes.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2018 18:23

In contrast, Boris Johnson's totally amoral machinations to become PM:

Osbourne prints the previously unseen article backing Britain to remain in the EU has emerged

Boris weighed up his 2 articles - Remain and Leave - decided backing Leave gave him a better chance of becoming PM - after the Remain vote he expected the referendum to produce:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-article-backing-britains-future-in-the-eu-a3370296.html

FishesaPlenty · 28/09/2018 18:26

but then I remembered Charlie Chaplin Hitler

...and indeed the Lego Movie's 'President Business'.

Thomasinaa · 28/09/2018 18:42

.

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 18:56

Adam Bienkov @AdamBienkov
Boris Johnson tells Sky News that he “mistakenly” signed up to the Irish backstop last December. Then apparently failed to realise for a full seven months afterwards.

Clearly Head of State material.

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TheTrapDoor · 28/09/2018 18:56
Wine
RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 19:10

www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-announce-new-chair-of-wilton-park
Foreign & Commonwealth Office announce new Chair of Wilton Park

Ms Gisela Stuart will start as the Chair of Wilton Park on 1 October 2018.

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Peregrina · 28/09/2018 19:27

I can't help wondering what would have become of Boris if he hadn't had his expensive Etonian education. You can imagine, if he'd come from a sink estate and gone to a school in special measures, he would have been the lad arsing around at the back of the classroom and spoiling it for those who did want to do their best. One or two teachers might have taken him to one side and told him that actually he was quite intelligent and could do well if he bothered to apply himself. As it is, as the product of a wealthy background, he didn't need to - success dropped into his lap almost undeserved.

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 19:29

Peregina, that alternative universe sounds good. Can I live there please?

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2018 19:43

For UK expats in the EU:

Depends partly on what the UK decide - in binding agreements, not May's speeches - for E27 expats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/uk-nationals-suffer-skills-eu-immigration-tories-brexit

Verhofstadt writes that
should the UK revise its position and adopt “a lifelong right to return” [for E27 expats in the UK]
it may then be possible for the EU to allow British nationals living in one member state before the end of the transition period to move on to live in another member state.
...
Verhofstadt tells Javid that 15 member states have also decided to take this [UK] approach to giving settled status to the British nationals living in their countries.

Ten member states, he writes, have opted for a simpler, declaratory approach, favoured by the lobby groups representing EU and British nationals most affected by Brexit,
under which they can assume settled status and “which means very little change as to the situation today”.

The EU is also looking at providing an identical set of papers to all British nationals with settled status.

Verhofstadt writes: “There is large consensus among member states on the need to have uniform documentation for UK citizens allowing easier recognition across the EU.

There are, however, diverging approaches regarding the dates from which it will be possible to submit applications and for the start of the accompanying information campaigns.”

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2018 19:49

Northern Ireland faces blackouts and drastic electricity price rises in the event of a no-deal Brexit, leaked government documents reveal.

I hope NI voters reward the DUP suitably

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/27/no-deal-brexit-could-result-in-northern-ireland-blackouts-leaks-reveal

in the event of a no-deal Brexit:
• Householders in Northern Ireland could see electricity bills rise by up to £200.
• Energy companies could collapse.
• Diesel generators would be needed to keep power supplies running.
• The UK government has not yet talked to power station operators in Northern Ireland.🤦🏻‍♀️
...
“Without a deal there are significant price and security of supply risks for Northern Ireland,” according to the government briefing.
Those include “electricity blackouts”, “up to 34% increase in [electricity] bills”, and the need for “heavy government intervention”.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2018 19:50

Hence the reports that thousands of UK military generators would need to be flown back from Afghanistan etc
and put on boats all around the NI coast Hmm

MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 28/09/2018 20:28

Boris Johnson tells Sky News that he “mistakenly” signed up to the Irish backstop last December. Then apparently failed to realise for a full seven months afterwards.

How dare he? Seriously doesn’t he think everyone in the country is just so stupid that he can say that with a straight face and still be considered as a serious politician??
Fgs

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 28/09/2018 20:48

DG. We have a squirrel in our garden too. DH and I watched him bury a conker. So, now we have a squirrel and a conker.Wink

PCPlumsTruncheon · 28/09/2018 20:52

Did anyone see Bojo running away from the reporter on C4 news? The man is a disgrace.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/09/2018 21:20

Don't know if this has been posted? The BBC trying to beebsplain Brexit to the young.

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/b8d097b0-3ad4-4dd9-aa25-af6374292de0

RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 21:24

Just when you think politics can't get any frikkin weirder, the ever reliable Chris Williamson MP goes 'Hold My Beer'

. @twldun
Hey, you! Yes, you there. Would you like a picture of Chris Williamson, Conspiracist Loon and Dictator-Apologist MP for Derby North, looking sinister in front of a banner reading “Unity is Strength” whilst holding two spoons in a cross formation in front of him?

You would? Well

Steve @ TheSteveThomas
Why is he being an Alakazam
#ObscurePokémonReference

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 28/09/2018 21:28

Conkers are poisonous. Sweet Chestnuts are edible.

Know your foraging faux pas.

I hear that books on foraging are big on this years most wanted Christmas lists.

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nuttynutjob · 28/09/2018 21:37

Plaice mat king. Although i just want to hang my head on the wall

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 28/09/2018 21:48

Did anyone see Bojo running away from the reporter on C4 news? The man is a disgrace.

PCPlums
Yes!
Krishnan Guru-Murthy following him down the street asking ‘why won’t you talk to us?’ Reminded me of one of those documentaries where the journalist desperately chases after some dodgy shyster who’s conned a load of people. Funny that...Hmm

PCPlumsTruncheon · 28/09/2018 22:15

Singing yeh, it was a bit like ‘Rogue Traders’ bit on Watchdog when the film crew pounces on a cowboy plumber asking why they told a sweet old lady that it would cost £900 + VAT to replace all her pipes while the hidden camera had filmed said plumber arsing around for 2 hours and then replacing a washer which cost 50p.
They then used to stick a photo of the dodgy plumber/builder/electrician in the ‘Rogues’ Gallery’.
If they had a ‘Rogue MP’ gallery, they’d run out of fucking space.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 28/09/2018 22:54

Why is he being an Alakazam
#ObscurePokémonReference

I was wondering that myself Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2018 01:09

Food supplier proposes vegetarian dishes in case of no-deal Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/food-supplier-suggests-vegetarian-dishes-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit

Bidfood UK, which is the sole provider of food served in prisons and also supplies schools, hospitals and care homes, has approached customers about changing their menu choices as part of contingency plans for border delays.

< yes, that'll go down well in stir >

HesterThrale · 29/09/2018 01:25

Peston quite understandably getting very frustrated with Boris telling porkies.

m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=urR5GwsOB8A

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2018 01:31

US groups raise millions to support rightwing UK thinktanks

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/us-groups-raise-millions-to-support-rightwing-uk-thinktanks