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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 10:50

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lonelyplanetmum · 15/09/2018 11:01

⛄️❄️ is coming.

Thank you.

Peregrina · 15/09/2018 11:24

Have booked our family winter holiday, thinking that it might be the last abroad for a few years, at least.

theaccidentaleconomist · 15/09/2018 11:35

Here comes another winter of long shadows and high hopes. Even more relevant now than in 1986:

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 11:46

We've booked a BIG holiday for December. I think we will get away for a weekend at least before the end of March as well. If only to check out potential new home city in EU. But yes, its a conscious decision to make sure we do something before the deadline.

I do wonder how many others are thinking like this. It only takes a certain percentage to really mess things up.

Same for the housing market. Carney's comments already are somewhat self forfilling because of the effect on market confidence.

I've noted the figures for latest month available on the land registary for properties sold in my local area. Its been terrible here since April already but July's figure has been by far the worst this year; there were just 4 houses in the area that completed sales, last July there were 30. It was the peak month last year.

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Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 11:49

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bellinisurge · 15/09/2018 11:49

Cheers, op.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/09/2018 11:56

Thanks again, red and for the excellent OP, as usual Thanks

We really filled up the last thread so quickly - in just 8 days !

Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 11:57

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RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 11:58

Big Choc, I think this thread will probably be a 7 - 8 dayer. Next two weeks after that I'm thinking its going to be more like 2 - 3 days.

Brace brace!

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Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 12:11

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1tisILeClerc · 15/09/2018 12:18

I just want it all over so I can get on with some useful work rather than wondering what the hell is going on.

BadderWolf · 15/09/2018 12:21
Cake
Hasenstein · 15/09/2018 12:26

Thanks as ever, Red. Lots more of the horror show to come.

Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 12:47

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Mrslifecrisis · 15/09/2018 13:01

accidental I absolutely loved The The. Those lyrics and the video encapsulated Thatcher’s Britain for me but seems more apt than ever now:
‘Let the poor drink their milk while the rich eat their honey
Let the bums count their blessings while the rich count their money’.

I still can’t believe this is actually happening and that about 90% of people are unaware or not bothered. When my Brexit angst becomes intolerable, I watch this

www.google.co.uk/search?q=a+den+of+purring+kittens&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

borntobequiet · 15/09/2018 13:09

Thanks again Red

Hasenstein · 15/09/2018 13:22

Mrs8

Businesses have been saying since the Referendum that they need certainty. It's the insecurity of not knowing what's going to happen which kills you. If someone could just say OK, this is how bad it's definitely going to be, then you could assess the situation and make the necessary arrangements to keep your family as safe as possible. The constant dithering and backsliding from things already agreed by this shifty government means that with just a few months to go we have no idea where we're going.

Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 13:40

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AsleepAllDay · 15/09/2018 13:42

OP spot on about Boris, what does he actually want to do as PM? I know he has aspirations of being Churchill, but what does he stand for, besides shagging and populism!

DGRossetti · 15/09/2018 13:46

.

1tisILeClerc · 15/09/2018 13:57

The trouble is that even if the UK remains it has set fire to a lot of boats already. Plain 'remaining allows the UK to stay in, and if they declare this before B day then it will still leave a massive bill and countries all over the world massively pissed off. That is the 'good news'.
The worse news would be all of that PLUS no decent trade deals with anybody.

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 14:06

Churchill could only be the Churchill of legend because he had an enemy to be compared to. Churchill without Hitler wouldn't have ever achieved that same status.

Churchill prior to WWII was not anywhere near the same man that the legends promote.

Always worth pointing out when discussing Churchill as a great leader. Gallipoli was an unmitigated disaster. It was poorly planned and executed. Its hugely important to New Zealand and Australia in terms of their national identity (and sense of being separate to the UK) because of the sense of waste and pointlessness of war.

Churchill's reputation as a great leader is rather fixed on a particular moment in time.

Arguably, fate could yet prove to decide that Johnson's already had his 'victory' moment in winning the referredum and the future could well prove to be a reverse of Churchill with the great disaster that is Brexit being the thing for which Johnson is forever remembered.

But also if Johnson wants to be remembered in the same way a Churchill, the only way he can really secure that status is through some sort of victory through adversity narrative - and possibly with a villian to be thrown into the piece. The EU as the villian is going to be a tough sell with the demographics as they stand. Those who believe the EU is a villian will die before those who think the EU is something of value and to aspire to. So there'd have to be some real work go into reversing those opinions.

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RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 14:17

In all seriousness, when there is a leadership challenge what you want to be looking for from Boris is ANYTHING more than wiff waff, dulce et decorum est, postbox burkas and a pr campaign.

I'm not expecting anything more. I think we are past whether there will be a campaign, and into when it will be, so I'm resigned to the point where my interest in propaganda is intrigued to see the extent of just how vacious it will be. How much themes of the Leave campaign are simply repeated in the context of an individual? Stuff like, this appealling to both sides of the electorate but never committing to anything and letting the electorate decide which version of Boris they believe in. If I'm going to have to endure it, I might as well enjoy deconstructing it.

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Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 14:19

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