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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 14:19

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Icantreachthepretzels · 15/09/2018 14:36

Boris would do well remember that as soon as the war was over, Churchill was democratically booted out of office. The people were grateful... but not so grateful they wanted a tory govt.
The most he could do is ride to the rescue and stop brexit - but even then he'd be out by 2022 - if he lasted that long. If he becomes pm before brexit and brexits ... he'll last until April/ May 2019. If we brexit before he becomes pm... he isn't going to want to touch the job with a ten foot pole - not until the worst is over and the cleanup has begun (which could be years) so he can look like the hero that he isn't. But by then he'll have well and truly missed his window and may be up in front of a court for treason in high office

Boris has severely miscalculated and shot himself in the foot. Sadly, that is all the good news we're going to get. He shot us all along with him.

The dream I was having as I woke up this morning was that it was brexit day - my dad walked into the bedroom (because I was at my parents house ... for dream reasons Hmm) and said 'well it's happened.' Nothing actually did happen - but it was a horrible feeling of loss and 'I can't believe this really happened'. I was unbelievably relieved to wake up and find it was still only September (even more relieved because for a good two minutes, on waking, I believed it was November - well, it was dark).
I really really don't want that day to happen for real.

Thanks for the thread red let's see where we are by the end of it.

AsleepAllDay · 15/09/2018 14:39

Oh I don't like Churchill at all, his attitude to India was awful and now there is a myth built up around him - his actions during WW2 went a long way in sanitising his legacy in the national memory

But Boris wants to be similarly loved and revered whether he deserves it not but do we even know what he stands for? I feel like he became a Tory because that was the 'done' thing, went into politics for the advantages and power, was Lord Mayor as it suited him to rehabilitate his image obviously supported Brexit for his own benefit, acted the fool at FCO and is now being trundled out for prime ministership without having a credible policy he has thought up himself, or his values

Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 14:40

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Peregrina · 15/09/2018 15:19

The Guardian had a picture of the G20 leaders from ten years ago, the other day. Of them all, only Merkel, and I think one other was still in Office. Some others had been tried and were in prison for corruption, and others had gone the way of Cameron. It was quite salutary to think how the mighty were fallen.

Mrslifecrisis · 15/09/2018 15:31

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-demolition-of-boris-johnson/

James O Brien absolutely nails it about Boris. He has never stood for anything except Borisism. The thought of him in no 10 and the Orange Buffoon in the White House makes my blood run cold.

borntobequiet · 15/09/2018 15:36

It’s noticeable that Boris is using the Trump playbook more and more, the current misdirection re is he Leave or leaning towards Not Leave being a good example. (See Trump on nuke/don’t nuke N Korea.)

WorriedMutha · 15/09/2018 15:40

Given Harri has outed Johnson with what we knew already. Do you see any scope for him to turn remain. He would only do it to improve his own prospects obviously but is there any angle he could take that doesn’t end up with him being hated by both sides in equal measure. I’m getting cynical about everything now but could Harri be heralding a reversal and would it be a game changer. Is Johnson orchestrating this.

IrenetheQuaint · 15/09/2018 15:45

Good opener, RTB Flowers

bellinisurge · 15/09/2018 15:51

His use of the Trump playbook is very unnerving.

1tisILeClerc · 15/09/2018 16:36

Maybe we should publish the Trump playbook and have it as a kind of 'I Spy'? We can then tick the traits he has copied.
Alternatively we could 'compare and contrast' with other dodgy world leaders,

Motheroffourdragons · 15/09/2018 16:51

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Mrsr8 · 15/09/2018 16:51

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DGRossetti · 15/09/2018 17:24

Posted this in another thread, but might be of interest to some ...

amblondra.esteri.it/ambasciata_londra/it/ambasciata/ufficio-stampa/news/2018/09/brexit-and-the-rights-of-eu-citizens.html

(What annoys me mildly about releases like that is they read as if no one fluent in English has double-proofed it. It's "correct" but stilted.)

DGRossetti · 15/09/2018 17:28

Not quite sure if this is Brexit related ...

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/29/fate-of-new-moorside-nuclear-power-station-in-cumbria-in-doubt

But it's worth noting the reluctance of the Japanese to invest further ...

(To the tune of "Tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree")

Shake the magic money tree, and catch the cash ...

1tisILeClerc · 15/09/2018 17:55

@DGR
A newspaper article suggests that there is some rejigging of finances going on and if I read it correctly (unlikely) the company wants the UK gov to put more investment money in up front. May not be Brexit related. Completion by 2024 looks a bit tight though!
Interesting comment that unless this and other new power stations get built the idea of electric cards gets badly messed up. I think the French/Chinese Hinkley station is on hold?

woman11017 · 15/09/2018 18:19

@tnewtondunn
Downing Street’s descent into paranoia and shambles is accelerating. Cabinet ministers see PM’s authority evaporating. That’s why everybody’s back to briefing against each other again. Reminiscent of the final days of Gordon Brown’.

@AntiRacismDay
Sep 8
We're delighted to announce Diane Abbott MP & John McDonnell MP will be headlining the International Conference: How do we defeat the rise of fascism & racism? on 20 Oct.

Spot the date?^
Spot the irony?^

Havanananana · 15/09/2018 18:30

Churchill's reputation as a great leader is rather fixed on a particular moment in time

and Johnson knows exactly when this was and how it came about.

Churchill was not PM when the war broke out (that was Chamberlain). He only became PM following the disaster of Norway and the German invasion of the Low Countries on 10th May 1940 (the day that Churchill took office) which culminated in the Battle of Dunkirk on 26th May. He was opposed to Chamberlain's policies leading up to the war. After Dunkirk, he was able to make his rallying speech about 'We will fight them on the beaches..' and as others have said, it gave the UK population a strong figurehead and a hated enemy.

Fast-forward to 2018. Johnson does not want to be PM yet, as that means he has to make Brexit a success. Remember his horrified face on the morning after the referendum when it dawned on him that he might have to deliver on his nonsensical promises. Instead he has May in place as the sacrificial virgin. If she returns from the final Brussels meeting with no Agreement and the UK catastrophically crashes out and there is civil unrest he can then step forward, claim that there wouldn't be such a mess if he had been in charge, and hold a few Churchillian speeches rallying the faithful against the monstrous EU across the Channel. He's already tried out some of these war-cries, so he's convinced that they will work.

Johnson is also a Classics scholar. He would do well to read the tale of Deinocrates.

SwedishEdith · 15/09/2018 18:34

Brexiteer MPs Say They're "In Despair" After Their Challenge To Theresa May's Brexit Plan Backfired.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/brexiteer-mps-say-theyre-in-despair-after-their-challenge?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharetwitter

"A prominent Leaver who is not a member of the ERG told BuzzFeed News they were not surprised by the group’s shortcomings. “It was totally predictable that the ERG would fuck it up. This is why Vote Leave did not allow Bernard Jenkin and Owen Paterson anywhere near the campaign. It would have been two months of a shitshow like this week”."

Oh, dear. What a shame. That's the thing with groups of grasping self-interested people - they all hate each other. Grin

woman11017 · 15/09/2018 18:38

Reservoir Brexists. Messy. Grin

MangoSplit · 15/09/2018 19:15

Place marking

Hazardswan · 15/09/2018 19:18

Placemarking and well done red for another round up.

HesterThrale · 15/09/2018 19:50

Place mat king.

This article suggests that another referendum should be a binary question: Govt's proposals or Remain.
No 'No deal'. Interesting.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c477ca30-b83a-11e8-849b-d1a6cd5e8545

1tisILeClerc · 15/09/2018 19:53

Apparently Mr Blair, Major and Clegg have been on a European tour to get EU support for a delay for another referendum.
From the Express! Went to look for a 'laugh'. After reading some of the comments posted I think Brexit with maximum grief is called for.

woman11017 · 15/09/2018 20:23

OK, so it's now looking very serious/real. Warning: includes petrol and water shortages. Not feverish, just factual predictions based on police and military experience in crisis zones.

twitter.com/J_amesp

"We can plan for food security, we can't plan for physical security."