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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 14:25

She lied seriously Angry

In EEA / EFTA we would NOT have to obey all the EU rules;
only about 20% of them and many of those are handed down from the UN and other international bodies

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:25

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
Neither side wants it, both know it would be a disaster, and that usually means a deal can be done. But it's really hard to see how anything can bridge the gap between May and Brussels right now.

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Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 14:26

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HowDoYouFeelNow · 21/09/2018 14:26

TM and Raab think it's the EU who need to give us a plan. The sheer arrogance of May saying "without a detailed explanation" like she hasn't known since July the EU would never accept Chequers.

I am fucking furious.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:27

Alex Wickham@alexwickham
Reaction from one ERG MP...

Westministenders: Conference Season
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BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 14:27

Just viewed on Twitter.
A car crash - and the pound to follow

Imo, looked & sounded like she'd been crying,
self-pity, rage ...

SusanWalker · 21/09/2018 14:28

TM and Raab think it's the EU who need to give us a plan. The sheer arrogance of May saying "without a detailed explanation" like she hasn't known since July the EU would never accept Chequers.

She's just stood up and said I'm so thick I don't understand the single market or the EEA.

HowDoYouFeelNow · 21/09/2018 14:29

Self pity, rage, stamping her foot like a petulant child going "treat me like a grown up!"

SusanWalker · 21/09/2018 14:30

She's essentially going to sacrifice the UK economy in the altar of her pride.

LaurieMarlow · 21/09/2018 14:30

Ok so there's the beginning of the end of Theresa May.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:30

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
That statement is like a long list of impossibilities. Norway impossible. Canada impossible. Chequers impossible.
When she first announced her red lines two years ago, she got a lot of good press. But a minority pointed out: she is boxing herself in here.
That statement today was what being boxed in looks like. That is the box slamming shut on you. Every option made politically impossible.

This needs to be stressed:

Jamie Grierson @JamieGrierson
May says in event of no deal the rights of three million EU citizens living in the UK will be protected. "We want you to stay," she says.

Matthew Holehouse @mattholehouse
Won't be up to her, because no PM could stay in office in a no-deal.

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2018 14:31

sacrifice on the altar of Tory party unity

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:33

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/21/problem-isnt-eu-brexit-problem-theresa-mays-terrible-leadership/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1537536071
The problem isn't the EU or Brexit. The problem is Theresa May's terrible leadership

Opinion article by Tim Stanley - note it was published before The No Deal Announcement Speech

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woman11017 · 21/09/2018 14:34

Imo, looked & sounded like she'd been crying
Perhaps she doesn't read people because she can't. Dreadful situation.

The lies in that statement are criminal, though. Timothy's fingerprints.

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:36

Stephen Bush @stephenkb
Quick take: an astonishing, at times barely reality-adjacent speech that leaves the UK very close to leaving without a deal:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/09/theresa-mays-bizarre-speech-leaves-united-kingdom-verge-no-deal-brexit
Jacob Rees-Mogg was absolutely right when he said that the Canada arrangement he wants is far more acceptable to the EU than what May is offering:
Deeply irksome to hear May chat off about how no British Prime Minister would ever accept the deal for Ireland she planned to accept until Arlene Foster phoned and told her were to go:

Are we at the point where May is more hardline than Mogg? And May and Arlene are trying to destroy the entire country before the sake of unionism?

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:37

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
Spoke to former head of civil service Sir Bob Kerslake who says EU position 'not just a negotiating tactic and says UK position needs "serious rethinking". "This is a good example of where the civil service needs to speak truth to power. I don't think Chequers is going to work"

What was I saying yesterday...

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Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 14:38

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1tisILeClerc · 21/09/2018 14:38

She managed to slip the lie about uncontrolled immigration in there too. You might have thought as previous HO minister she might have,,,,,,Obviously not.

MsForestier · 21/09/2018 14:40

Did she actually put it to Varadkar that she couldn't have the UK split up?

A deep irony if so.

1tisILeClerc · 21/09/2018 14:41

I think she should be asked to go to Brussels where the 27 leaders will stand around her in a circle and say 'Just F off' in their own languages.

woman11017 · 21/09/2018 14:41

£ down 1.5%

Motheroffourdragons · 21/09/2018 14:41

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RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:42

Quote
"Second, I want to reassure the people of Northern Ireland that in the event of no deal we will do everything in our power to prevent a return to a hard border."

But...

Tom Peck @tompeck
Also, I presume I'm right in saying, once we crash out with no deal because we couldn't find a way to avoid a hard border in Ireland, the first thing we get is a hard border in Ireland?

Journalists should attack this point like there is no tomorrow.

They won't.

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woman11017 · 21/09/2018 14:43

There's got to be a vote of no confidence now surely
BigChoc will know better, but with the FTPA and the Repel Bill, I think they can do pretty much what they want. Which is what they're doing.