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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:43

fangirl, there's no point in discussing what either campaign should or should not have done.

Own your choice.

Either accept that the country is going to pay a huge price for a tiny movement in FOM which will be barely noticeable or get behind limiting the damage now.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 21:48

Bearbehind, my choice had very little to do with immigration. But I dont put such a small price on sovereignty and controlling our own borders as you seem to do.

However I do think your opinion that there is no such thing as free movement of people very weird compared to people like Moussemoose who praises that it exists.

And I do think you are very racist when you call out posters for wanting to control our apparently sovereign borders.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:49

What will the remain campaign be like if it doesn't all fall apart?

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:49

Remain camp not campaign

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:51

But I dont put such a small price on sovereignty and controlling our own borders as you seem to do.

That'll be the border in NI you don't think needs to exist 🤔

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:52

What will the remain campaign be like if it doesn't all fall apart

It's not going to fall apart because we're not going to end up leaving SM/CU.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:54

However I do think your opinion that there is no such thing as free movement of people very weird compared to people like Moussemoose who praises that it exists.

Where have I said FOM doesn't exist?

Of course it exists.

I just don't have a problem with that.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:56

That crystal ball again Grin

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:58

And I do think you are very racist when you call out posters for wanting to control our apparently sovereign borders.

Still don't see how that makes me racist. Are you saying I'm anti British or something because nothing else makes sense.

You on the other hand.- When reducing FOM is at the price it's going to be there's no other explanation.

If removing EU immigrants is worth it costing you personally, and every other person in the country bar a handful, hundreds of pounds a year, what other word describes it?

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:58

The gains seem so marginal against the potential damage.

Sovereignty - I don't think we've lost any, but if you do think we have lost sovereignty you must know it's marginal and related to EU specific laws. You must also be aware that as a result of globalisation we are going to have to conform to outside laws anyway.

So to regain notional sovereignty, which we are losing anyway in a global economy you are prepared to screw up the economy.

A limited gain for a big loss.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 22:05

I think to be fair, and to balance out my stance on things, if some people did vote leave purely on the basis to stop immigration then they are dicks.

I remember when Katherine Ryan said about people talking about immigration to her (referring to black immigrants) and how bad it is. Sarah is American! But they don't think of her as a migrant.. 🤔😮🙄

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:08

I think to be fair, and to balance out my stance on things, if some people did vote leave purely on the basis to stop immigration then they are dicks.

Completely agree, but I suspect you've just alienated every Leaver who still posting on here.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:09

Bearbehind, You cant have it both ways, either people are free to come into our country or we are able to decide who we let in? Which is it.

No wonder Leave won when remainers are so obtuse, its like pulling teeth. Or maybe they have something to hide? Like maybe the truth?

prettybird · 05/08/2018 22:11

@Moussemoose - damn those pesky metropolitan areas and their welcoming approach to other nationalities Wink

I love the fact that I can buy pretty much anything in my local shopping street Smile We're a mixed community and proud of it! Smile

When there was a notorious racist murder locally a number of years ago (Asian boys murdering a white boy Sad), the BNP tried to come up here to capitalise on what happened and foment discord. The boy's mum
effectively ran them out of town Grin

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:12

You cant have it both ways, either people are free to come into our country or we are able to decide who we let in? Which is it.

FOM doesn't have to be a complete free for all.

Even within the EU there can be restrictions.

The very fact you see it as being so black and white demonstrates why this is such a problem.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:14

The very fact you see it as being so black and white demonstrates why this is such a problem

It is black and white, either the UK parliament has the power to decide who comes into the UK or they dont. Its a matter of law. which is it? The problem is you lying.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:17

I'm happy with FOM but I am aware other EU countries put more restrictions on it than we do.

Laws are nuanced, just because it is called Freedom of Movement doesn't mean it is a free for all. Walkingdeadfangirl are you suggesting leavers don't understand nuance?

Laws aren't usually totally binary.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:18

fangirl WTF are you talking about?

We could have enhanced controls over FOM whilst within the EU?

What is being proposed under Brexit amounts to basically just that.

What part of that is me lying?

lljkk · 05/08/2018 22:22

6 positions held:

Brexit is a success (anyone who says otherwise is just scaremongering)

Brexit is a failure 1) due to bad tories 2) due to horrible Labour 3) due to "lack of belief" in Brexit 4) due to bad politicians

Brexit is a mystery

What % do we need in which category to stop Brexit?

prettybird · 05/08/2018 22:22

Please define what lies Bearbehind has promulgated Confused

The UK could have chosen to manage and control FoM. True.

Immigrants have, on balance, contributed more to the UK economy than they take out. True.

"Problems" with insufficient capacity in schools, housing and health service, down to UK government policy and not the EU. True.

Where are the lies? Confused

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:25

prettybird I think it's like Trumps 'fake news'

'Lies' have been redefined as being 'anything you don't want to hear'' 😂😂

surferjet · 05/08/2018 22:27

Explain freedom of movement to me bear. What does it actually mean.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:28

We could have enhanced controls over FOM whilst within the EU?

You change your opinion every 5 minutes. So its no longer that we can decide who come into the UK, its now we could have had some 'enhanced controls' over anyone that's wants to come into the UK.

We want 100% control over who comes into the UK. Isn't that better, we are a sovereign nation after all?

prettybird · 05/08/2018 22:30

Grin Bearbehind . Indeed.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:31

Now you ask surfer

Better late than never!

It is NOT the absolute right for anyone within the EU to come and go as they please.

The UK might have chosen that position but it is not what every EU country has done.

The fact you don't know that is why we're in this mess.

EU migrants aren't stopping your son realising his potential.

The sooner you accept that, the better.