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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 05/08/2018 21:15

Rosstac

My sister is head of dept in a primary school in inner city Bristol, this is not her experience of Europeans, of refugees yes, it can be an issue.

My daughter has just finished her school education @18, there are a number of east europeans who studied there, all spoke great English.

Had we a contributory benefits system, as EU countries have, we d not be the draw to europeans, had we trained our own nurses, doc's HCA's etc etc they'd not find it so easy to work here but we take away bursaries instead :(
We ve no means of knowing who comes in/out of the UK, we give out NI numbers like confetti and only claim back about a 1/3rd of EU health costs ....we ve no means of knowing who has been here or for how long....

Whose fault is any of that?

Maybe one day, you ll realise that the UKs above problems and shit public services is ALL our own fault, its not anything to Proud about is it? Fangirl.

Jason118 · 05/08/2018 21:15

The arguments here follow the same general arguments as Theists vs Atheists. Atheists will use science to explain their positions and use rational thought to explain what is known and on that basis predict what will happen, or what may happen, if x follows y. Theists on the other hand believe they are right, regardless of anything else, and herein lies the problem with this debate. You cannot reason with belief because the belief delusion trumps all. This is where we are now. Someone mentioned the 'cult' aspect of leavers and on the evidence of the arguments they bring, they fit the bill completely.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:16

The school place issue has been a problem for almost a decade now. I believe the high birth rate years started in circa 2005 so children starting school from 2010 onwards struggled more each year for places. It's an issue with the general population as a whole rather than exclusively to do with the EU, although free movement wouldn't have helped an already increasing issue.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:17

I think it’s possible to be against FOM without being racist if you still haven’t twigged that stopping FOM will have a negative effect on the economy sufficient to wipe out any “benefits” of stopping FOM.

Well put tokyo

And if you have twigged what a problem it will be, there's only one conclusion.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 21:17

As it happens, ds went to a primary school where 60% of the pupils had English as an Additional Language. It was a brilliant school - an exemplar of best practice for dealing with EAL. Smile. Our closest primary (but due to a quirk of the catchment fixed catchments in Scotland , not actually our catchment school) is 98% EAL Shock

At the secondary school he went to (he's just left), there are 55 languages spoken. Many children arrive not being able to speak any English. It still gets good results Smile. And before anyone tries to suggest that that must be because it is in a leafy suburb - this is in inner city Glasgow and its catchment has a high proportion of SIMD1 and 2 areas (Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation - the bottom 2 deciles). Lots of social housing.

The school actually celebrates its wide demographic and mixed ethnicities. The cultural lunch that its S6 pupils organised included dishes from around the world to reflect their backgrounds: there were pupils wearing or displaying saris, All Blacks rugby kit, salwar kamizes (spelling?), kilts, the stars & Stripes, the Pakistani flag, the Indian flag, the Polish flag, Turkish flag, French berets, German lederhosen, South African and Zimbabwean flags and many others. I was persuaded to make danish pastries to reflect my grandmother's heritage (and my dad made boerewors - South African farmer's sausage).

Ds gets very annoyed at both conscious and subconscious racism. His friends come from around the world and have many different religions (and none like him )

Maybe that's why the area voted over 70% Remain Grin

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 21:17

I think Bearbehind is just a racist lost cause. There is nothing wrong with wanting to decide who comes into your home/country. Most countries in the world do that. I cant believe she hasn't been banned from the internet already.

KennDodd · 05/08/2018 21:18

So it seems we are on to immigration. It's the only thing left isn't it. All the other promises about the land of milk and honey awaiting us with a prosperous future have been exposed as lies. Brexit will not be good for the economy (is there anybody at all left still saying that?) and because if that will not be good for the NHS or public services. As for sovereignty it seems people have also woken up to the fact that we'll be dancing to the WTO and US's tune after Brexit, a place where we really do have no (useful) say.

So we come to immigration (which after all was what this was about all along) any price is worth it to stop those pesky immigrants coming over here. Can I ask the Leavers on here, is it really worth any price? How much (an actual figure) would you pay personally to end FOM? Genuine question.

Nikephorus · 05/08/2018 21:19

Dear OP, we live in a democracy. The country voted. The majority was Brexit. Get used to it. The reason we haven't achieved a decent deal with the EU is because Parliament is full of egotistical Labour tossers who would rather try and score points against the Conservatives than do the right thing and work together with them to achieve the best deal for the country as a whole. There are also attention-seeking Conservative tosspots who would sell their own granny if it would get them 5 minutes of glory (yes Boris, I'm looking at you) and who don't give a toss for their country. And just to screw things up further there are a lot of members of the public who would rather add to the mess and assist the attempts to weaken the Govt's position with EU. So if you want to point the finger at anyone, point it at Labour, at Boris and friends, and at yourself. If Brexit goes tits up it will be your fault and not that of Theresa May or the Leavers. Regards, Nikephorus

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 21:20

@jason118 a good analogy but remember only true for some who voted leave and who appear to have taken all leave votes as adhering to their viewpoint. Whether they should have/ had a valid point/ were.misled or not a number of other leavers did vote because of TTIP/ NATO / EU audit / protest etc etc myriad items and it is those people who are potentially reachable.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:21

Why am I racist fangirl?

I can see the benefit of a multicultural country.

I can see that, yes there may be isolated issues, but on the very vast whole, it's more than a price worth paying.

You can call me many things, but 'racist' is little more than playground trying to turn the tables.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:24

The reason we haven't achieved a decent deal with the EU is because Parliament is full of egotistical Labour tossers who would rather try and score points against the Conservatives than do the right thing and work together with them to achieve the best deal for the country as a whole

I'm sure Corbyn would take that!

Labour have done sod all wrt Brexit.

This mess is squarely at the feet of the Tories.

And I say that as an ex -Conservative voter.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 21:26

Bearbehind You are good at deflecting but you never explain why their is anything wrong with deciding who comes into your home/country. Just as most of the world except the EU do.

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 21:26

I'm still holding on to the idea that I simply can't believe that so much of the country has such an issue with European immigration even given our ability to improve our controls that FOM is the critical factor in all of this. Mind you I thought Nigel.Farage was an extremist swivel eyed loon at the time of the referendum and any leave success was in spite of not because of him so I may need to socialize more.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:27

We always could decide who comes into the country.

Nikephorus · 05/08/2018 21:27

Labour have done sod all wrt Brexit.
All bar about 4 of them have voted against most of the Brexit bills! Wake up.....

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 21:27

Err, Labour didn't win the last election. The Tories and their (new) friends the DUP did. Labour doesn't even stand in N Ireland. Having said that how many times have Labour voted with the Tories, especially Kate Hoey, Frank Field and a couple of nameless others? Hardly Parliament being full of Labour and working as an Opposition which is what they should do.

Tory tossers who would sell their own granny. Yes, I agree there.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:29

prettybird you are talking about a metropolitan area. I live and work in a metropolitan area. Multiculturalism is embraced and warmly welcomed. The benefits of a vibrant community are clear to most people.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Rosstac is talking about Lincolnshire. In these communities immigration is very new and scary, the 'British' population is not used to dealing with waves of immigrants so react in a more negative way.

It is hard to not describe these sections of population as being............ nope no words someone won't object to, anyone please help me?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 21:30

We always could decide who comes into the country
Great so you are on board with ending FOM then. Progress.

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 21:32

OK Rosstac has a point about Lincolnshire - because of the nature of the work available they have seen an influx of immigrants. But that's one area, there are many other areas where they don't know what an immigrant is, or at best it's someone who comes from a town 20 miles away. What makes them anti-immigrant?

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:33

FOM has worked for me and my family.

I have family members who live and work in Europe. I live and work in a multicultural area.

I am not prepared to make any apology for fully supporting FOM.

Peregrina · 05/08/2018 21:33

We always could decide who comes into the country, but we chose not to.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:35

Great so you are on board with ending FOM then. Progress.

I dont feel it was necessary.

Cost v benefit.

Enforcing more stringent controls to deal with the isolated issues would have cost more than it was worth IMO.

But that aside, enforcing FOM control whilst within the EU would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than the price we'll now pay for barely moving the bar WRT to FOM with Brexit.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:36

I'm not supporting communities that object to immigrants I'm just trying to understand them.

It all seems very small minded and "my brother left the village once" to me. But when people say that we get accused of being unsympathetic to small minded, closed off - nope - got to stop before I'm rude.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:36

Agreed peregrina

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 21:41

enforcing FOM control whilst within the EU would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than the price we'll now pay for barely moving the bar WRT to FOM with Brexit
Well perhaps the leave campaign should have led with that when campaigning because the EU and UK are under the impression that free movement of people is an actual thing.