Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 20:44

Education is suffering because of austerity.

People look round and see the foreigners and blame them it is one of the worst aspects of human behaviour. Blame the different person.

Rosstac if you are in Lincolnshire then the issues with education are systemic within the white, working class communities there. The government, and many previous governments, needs to address the issue. It is shameful they have been ignored.

This is nothing to do with the EU though.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 20:48

Leavers arguments aren't week, that is your opinion. Ramainers trying to argue predictions as facts is not helping their arguments at all, it's making them look quite ridiculous actually.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 20:48

No Bear the pinnacle was Britain was paying off Germany and Poland's war debts.

Totally sincere, passionately delivered, absolute bollocks.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 20:49

Leavers’ arguments aren’t weak so much as non-existent.

FFS.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 05/08/2018 20:50

People saying "everything's lives will be damaged for generations" is not helping their debate, it's undermining it.

We can learn from history though. We do know about e.g. the Irish famine. Food shortages and Government policies caused mass starvation and emigration. The population of the island of Ireland is only now getting back to what it was before the famine.

Food shortages now? Possible, the government is talking about telling us/supermarkets to make provision. Government policies - I don't see much concern for people struggling, beyond Theresa May talking about people just managing, which I don't think she's said recently anyway. Raab talked about bringing back workhouses, which even in the dark decade before WW2 had already been abolished.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 20:50

I didn’t say ‘demands’ I said ‘terms’. - get it right!

& you’ve got some nerve getting all upset over that with the offensive bollocks you come out with.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 20:51

Austerity and an ever rising birth rate. My dc were some of the first to start school where they only just got in due being born in high birth rate years.

golondrina · 05/08/2018 20:52

Like, do you believe No Deal is impossible then? Because the thing about planes isn't opinion in the event of No Deal, it's what will happen. It's not a prediction, it's the consequence of no deal.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 20:52

"Leavers’ arguments aren’t weak so much as non-existent.

FFS."

...in your opinion.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 20:53

Come off it surferjet even you must know the U.K. didn't pay off Germany's war debt.

The EU has impacted negatively on education?

You can't support this ?

The whole democracy nonsense?

How much bollocks can leave come up with and you will support it?

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 20:56

Exactly, LikeIDo1 rising birth rate, decrease in funding, systemic long term issue with white working class attitudes to education in rural and coastal areas.

Governments not prepared to make the commitment to funding that will boost these areas.

This is not the fault of the EU though. If anything parents committed to education, like most immigrant parents are, will raise education standards in these areas.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 20:57

What? When did I say we paid off Germany’s war debt?

We were in debt ourselves & had to be bailed out by America. I think we only finished paying them off about 15 years ago!

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 20:58

I didn’t say ‘demands’ I said ‘terms’. - get it right!

FFS- more hair splitting.

And the difference is what?

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 21:00

Well some opinions are more informed than others.

And some opinions are just bollocks. Like some of the absolute bullshit spouted by leavers on this thread.

On the immigration point, as far as I can see, people’s reasons for being against immigration fall into one of two categories:

  1. You want to stop immigration because you don’t want foreign people here. (The racist reason.)
  1. You don’t have a problem with foreign people per se, but you want to control immigration because you’re worried that immigrants are taking too many jobs and putting an unnecessary strain on the country’s resources. (The “look after our own first” argument.)

Let’s give you all the benefit of the doubt and assume it’s the latter. You live in a country with a strong economy and nearly full employment and you vote for something which will enable the government to stop immigrants (who have been shown time and time again to add more wealth to the economy than they take from it), but which will in doing so have such a deleterious effect on the economy that jobs (that British people currently have) will be lost, and there will be significantly less money to invest in schools, hospitals and housing.

You’ve voted for something that will make all the problems you blame on immigrants worse.

OP posts:
LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:01

Of course I know a no deal brexit is possible. And it's fine people discussing what happens legally after.

But people must be sat at home with their crystal ball as they are so certain what definitely will happen to the next two generations once we leave the EU. Amazing!

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:01

You didn't surferjet but so one else did.

That's the point nonsense is being thrown around, however most remain pints can be backed up by references and predictions from reliable sources. Leavers just spout total bollocks and then fuck off.

At least you stay on the thread....

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 21:02

So one = someone

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:06

I wouldn't really say that calling all people who are against FOM "racists" is a very informed opinion like on this thread.

I think there are idiots on both sides of the camp if I'm honest.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 21:08

Which poster accused all people who are against FOM of being racist?

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 21:09

That would be me tokyo

In lieu of any argument to the contrary round here, I don't think it's unfair.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:10

"But you still can’t see why a certain number of people are against FOM as it stands"

Yes I can.

Because they are racist, ill-informed bigots who think all the non-white people should leave too.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 21:12

I think it’s possible to be against FOM without being racist if you still haven’t twigged that stopping FOM will have a negative effect on the economy sufficient to wipe out any “benefits” of stopping FOM.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 05/08/2018 21:12

I have to agree that people arguing that their children's education is suffering because of non English speaking children or they have to wait in A & E longer doesn't help with what could be a legitimate argument about school places being a problem as a whole due to a rising number in population.

Why are school places a problem? Nothing to do with the EU and 100% due to Government policies. We have new estates planned locally, not for immigrants especially, almost certainly they will house people priced out of London. There is already pressure on primary school places. 40 years ago the County Council would have purchased a plot of land and built a school. Now they have to find a multi-academy trust or free school to make provision. They are not allowed to build themselves. This is wholly a piece of Westminster ideology, and I reiterate is absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 21:12

On a note to remainers though, you're lucky the cast of Love Island didn't vote (or at least I hope they didn't) because what I just heard on the TV with them talking about Brexit hurt even my ears! 😱😱

falcon5 · 05/08/2018 21:14

You know, someone asked the question upthread (bear maybe?) About why to engage and what point there was to engage. And I think that it's a reasonable.point that when things are just getting to hurling comments that it's probably not super helpful. LoveinTokyo has been really patient and thoughtful a lot of.times but I can see you getting frustrated just now. However... of the really engaging posts from all sorts of people (was it this thread that Louise posted) there will always be lots more people reading than writing. So I guess every time on certain posts there is a possibility that people, if they want to, will pick up something new from it. A lot of people are still more central and can see something in both ways even if they didnt agree with one. Some people are pretty well entrenched in their position and your chances of meaningful enagagement are probably slimmer in my opinion.