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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:32

fangirl, I've said before, if you're going to accuse me of something, at least base it on fact.

I'm neither racist nor inconsistent.

I've not changed my opinion on FOM once.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 22:33

I know exactly what FOM means.

It’s just you don’t.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:34

No, you know what you think it means.

As I've said, hence this mess.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:38

Walkingdeadfangirl what exactly are you unclear about?

We could have had more control over FOM.

The U.K. did not implement these controls.

Brexit will put us in a similar position to the one we could have chosen within the EU. So lots to lose hardly anything gained.

We will still not have 100% control over who comes in to the U.K. after Brexit.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:39

Crack on surfer.

You mentioned in. Not me.

I can't be banned for that.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:40

That's a cm not an inch then?

The EU has at least meant we have a more sensible system of measurement.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:42

Bearbehind you opinions are so contradictory that I give up. Ending FOM is the right thing to do, not least because you cant espouse a better solution to controlling our borders other than "let then all in, we could control them a bit better".

So thanks for confirming that Brexit is the best option to controlling our country and regaining our sovereignty.

I look forward to TM deciding what happens.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 22:44

Just in case any lurkers might want to know what FoM means (even if Surferjet doesn't ) FoM means "Freedom of Movement to work ".

Don't believe me - here is the EU's own definition

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457&langId=en

It does allow family members to join those exercising their right to free movement for work purposes. I suppose that might might be categorised as opening the flood gates Hmm

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:44

fangirl you literally make no sense.

That’s clearly because you can’t comprehend there’s a middle ground between controlled and uncontrolled FOM.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:45

Walkingdeadfangirl are you reading different posts to me?

FOM could have been implemented differently our sovereign government decided not to.

Brexit will result in a system where we have to accept laws we have had no input to if we want to trade. One of these laws might be FOM and we will not have any say in how we implement it because we are not in a position to influence the law making process.

surferjet · 05/08/2018 22:47

Crack on surfer

I will, don’t you worry.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:47

I think it’s timely this thread is coming to an end

It is literally the real world versus some parallel universe where the facts are irrelevant.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:48

The thing is surfer, I’m not saying anything out of turn.

The very fact you’re resorting to such threats is evidence of why this divide will never be healed.

prettybird · 05/08/2018 22:49

Again and again, we see Leave supporters blame the EU for things that are UK government policy Confused

Even May said in her first White Paper (written after the Referendum Confused), the UK had never lost its sovereignty, it only felt like it had HmmConfused

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:49

Bearbehind, No I think you are not making sense. Either you control movement or you dont, there is no middle ground.

When you say controlling FOM, what you really mean is there is free movement and we can tinker round the edges. So why aren't you honest and admit we do NOT get to decide who comes into our country whilst within the EU. But you wont.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:52

Either you control movement or you dont, there is no middle ground

The fact you see this so ideological and literally is why we’re in this mess.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:54

The fact you see this so ideological and literally is why we’re in this mess. For some reason the truth hurts you Bear. You can keep us in the EU with a lie.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:54

Walkingdeadfangirl do you agree FOM could have been implemented differently?

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 22:56

fangirl you’ve been asked be me and others to explain my lies.

You can kid yourself all you like but unless you actually explain which of my comments are lies, you look a bit foolish.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:56

do you agree FOM could have been implemented differently?

Yes I do, and I also agree that if it were we might be in a different situation. But it wasn't and so we are not...

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 22:58

Bearbehind, you are lying by simultaneously saying we get to decide who comes into our country, whilst also saying we have FOM.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 22:59

Either you control movement or you dont, there is no middle ground

This statement of yours Walkingdeadfangirl directly contradicts this statement of yours in response to my question about FOM being implemented differently by other governments.

Yes I do, and I also agree that if it were we might be in a different situation. But it wasn't and so we are not...

prettybird · 05/08/2018 23:00

But it's not a lie: Surferjet is the one who is promulgating, let's be generous, a misconception.

For those that don't want to click through to the EU's own definition of Freedom of Movement, here it is in full, so that they can make their own judgement as to where it is Bearbehind or Surferjet who is lying labouring under a mis-conception Hmm:

Free movement - EU nationals
Free movement of workers is a fundamental principle of the Treaty enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and developed by EU secondary legislation and the Case law of the Court of Justice. EU citizens are entitled to:
▪ look for a job in another EU country
▪ work there without needing a work permit
▪ reside there for that purpose
▪ stay there even after employment has finished
▪ enjoy equal treatment with nationals in access to employment, working conditions and all other social and tax advantages
EU nationals may also have certain types of health & social security coverage transferred to the country in which they go to seek work (see coordination of social security systemss_).
Free movement of workers also applies, in general terms, to the countries in the European Economic Area: Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.
People working in some occupations may also be able to have their professional qualifications recognised abroad (see mutual recognition of professional qualificationss_).
EU social security coordinationn_ provides rules to protect the rights of people moving within the EU, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.
Who can benefit from this freedom?
▪ Jobseekers, i.e. EU nationals who move to another EU country to look for a job, under certain conditions
▪ EU nationals working in another EU country
▪ EU nationals who return to their country of origin after having worked abroad.
▪ Family members of the above.
Rights may differ somewhat for people who plan to be self-employed, students, and retired or otherwise economically non-active people. For more information on these groups, see Your Europee_.
What restrictions are there?
▪ The rights described on this site apply to people who exercise their right to free movement for work purposes.
▪ There are limitations based on considerations of public security, public policy, public health grounds and employment in the public sectorr_.
▪ Nationals of Croatia may face temporary restrictionss_.

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