to warn of possible grounding of passenger flights and air freight from 29th March

[Clairetree1]

In order for any plane to take off or land in the UK from the 29th March, we need either

a) an agreement that we can still be included in the European aviation safety agreement, including agreeing to be bound by the European courts.

or

b) The UK civil aviation authority needs to set up its own safety agreement, write all its policies, establish it rules, negotiate with approximately 25 separate governments to come to an agreement that these rules are acceptable for planes flying into and out of their countries ( including the EU and USA), recruit and train several thousand staff, buy and adapt premises, put maintenance and safety procedures into action, to the satisfaction of said 25 governments, under go and pass international inspection and get underway.

My friend in civil aviation has been shouting louder and louder about this for over a year, as time ticks by and nothing whatsoever is done to make progress towards either a or b.

He tells me there was an article about this on the BBC website earlier, but it appears to have been taken down now, at least I can't find it.

Anybody prepared to buy air tickets for April 2019?

I can assure you, no one on MN is taking all of the concerns about BREXMAGEDDON more seriously than me. I have started a special support group. We are channelling our anxiety through medium of poetry and mime.

Francine, the fact that you can’t come up with anything other than some extremely unfunny attempts at sarcasm speaks volumes.

It means you can’t come up with any actual counter-arguments.

Unless of course I’ve got it all wrong and you have evidence that an aviation deal will be done (and a solution to the Irish border issue while you’re at it).

I would love to debate with you if you have anything of any substance to contribute.

TheElementsSong
I do wonder, to a completely blank slate lurker, what the actual effect of the single-sentence “hysterical scaremongering/ it’llbefiiiiiine” posts would be. Does it have the intended anaesthetic just-lie-back-and-accept effect?

We have to help them TheElementsSong. Whenever they say “hysterical scaremongering/ it’llbefiiiiiine" - it is our job to remind them that they are
a) Racist
b) Uneducated
c) Provincial and A Bit Simple

Until we get these simple, popular, vote-winning messages across - there's no way we'll be able to win the Referendum vote on 23rd June, 2016.

Well if you came up with some sensible suggestions rather than just being silly, people who currently think you’re an idiot might change their minds.

LoveInTokyo
I could not agree with you more. Thankfully, sarcasm on the intertubes is going to BANNED by EU Directive 87656645388621. At long last!

As you were, then...

🙄

LoveInTokyo
Well if you came up with some sensible suggestions

Unfortunately, LoveInTokyo, and it pains me to have to break this to you, the only sensible solution is to spend the next 7-8 months speculating on Mumsnet exactly how monumentally disastrous BREXMAGEDDON is going to be.

Francine I am going to ignore your posts from now on because, as the saying goes, you can’t educate pork but banging on about BREXMAGEDDON is getting extremely tedious.
Like the aforementioned drunk at the office party, you obviously think it’s hilarious and the pinnacle of wit. The reality is that everyone is sitting there cringing for you because you because you are just coming across as a totally brainwashed idiot who is incapable of posting anything that doesn’t consist of meaningless slogans and ‘hilarious’ retorts.
You’re not hilarious. You actually strike me as rather sad and pathetic. Have you considered counselling or anger management?

I see that Francine, having been "owned" on other threads with questions that he or she thought were clever and would catch Remainers out, is now trying a different approach

Still not working

Derailing is a trolling technique. Best not to feed.

Unless compelled to by the French government, of course.

As in compelled to leave, quoted by LIT upthread. This is the part that makes me nauseous every time I think about it. We're only here (France) because of my husband's British passport. If the useless sacks of shit in your government don't bloody well do something, are we going to be kicked out?

How long before prettybird lets everyone know she has...
....
........
a degree

Mr Leo Varadkar Taoiseach of the Republic of Ireland
If the UK want their planes to fly over our skies, they would need to take that into account. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to take back other people’s sky.

"Setting aside the absolute nonsense about the UK expecting to “to take back other people’s sky,” the basis of flights over Europe as a whole was determined by the International Air Services Transit Agreement, signed from 1944 onwards by 133 countries. Ireland signed up to the agreement in 1957 and it would have to extract itself from that commitment if it were actually to carry out this recent threat. Until that happens, the treaty specifically states that countries are forbidden from discriminating against the nationality of an aircraft in order to prevent any one nation from imposing arbitrary and unilateral bans of this sort."

www.themilitarytimes.co.uk/news/ireland-threatens-to-close-air-space-to-uk-flights/

www.themilitarytimes.co.uk/news/ireland-threatens-to-close-air-space-to-uk-flights/

The resilience of air-routes is perhaps best demonstrated by the way in which, even during the Russian attack on the Crimea and mainland Ukraine, no restrictions on air-travel were imposed for legal reasons. This reflected the clear intent of the First Freedom of the Air which reads as follows:

“First Freedom of the Air – the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State or States to fly across its territory without landing (also known as a First Freedom Right).”

Perhaps the clearest message to come out of Mr Varadkar’s utterances is that the world has become so complex that you have to be very careful before making such simplistic statements. Just like some military plans, they seldom survive contact with the thinking press and public.

Given that the Irish air force is very small, has no jets and almost nothing in the way of armed aircraft, reports of an agreement reached last year between the UK and Ireland, by which the UK would effectively go to the assistance of the Irish, makes a lot of sense. It follows a series of increasingly aggressive Russian incursions into Irish and UK airspace, one of which was reported in the Irish press as follows:

“The Irish ability to respond to Russian aircraft entering Irish airspace has become something of a concern in recent weeks. Russian military aircraft entered Irish controlled airspace twice in recent weeks and months, with the result of the RAF escorting the unwanted guest along the west coast and the Irish authorities later admitting they didn’t even realise what was happening at the time.

The Irish Aviation Authority recently confirmed that two commercial flights, with hundreds of passengers on board, were disrupted due to Russian bombers entering Irish-controlled airspace on February 18.

www.themilitarytimes.co.uk/news/ireland-threatens-to-close-air-space-to-uk-flights/

Remember y2k? That was all OK and no one did anything to prepare at all

Whilst I agree that planes will continue to fly post 29/3/19, that sentence is not true at all.

People where I worked spent a hell of a lot of overtime writing software patches and working with customers to upgrade their mobile phone networks prior to Y2K to make sure "that was all ok"

Keep going Francine. Some of us are loving your work

I think it’s a thing of beauty.

WasTodayReallyNecessary
Some of us are loving your work

By "work" are you referring to my growing repertoire of performance art* entitled "BREXMAGEDDON - my journey into DESPAIR"?

a series of pieces using mime, expressive dance and Mongolian throat singing. It received critical acclaim in The Guardian

"Mrs Pefko's melodic wailing interspersed with terrifying "dance" followed by rocking gently in the foetal position, with her thumb in her mouth, - left the audience in a pensive and fitting silence."
*Spenborough & Cleckheaton Guardian

So, Francine, you are saying that leaving the EU with no deal (a distinct possibility) and therefore also dropping out of EASA, will have no effect on fights in and out of the UK?

That is reassuring. and i'm glad you ve added a voice of reason to this mass hysteria.

OkMaybeNot
Only the most determined of thickos are still calling this scaremongering. These are the sort of people who would refuse a wet blanket during a housefire because their horoscope told them to stay dry, I swear

This ^ 172%!
Thicketty, thick, thickos. Some of them don't even have degrees! Why did we ever give them the vote in the first place?

a series of pieces using mime, expressive dance and Mongolian throat singing. It received critical acclaim in The Guardian

It is a fitting tribute to the deeply sensitive and humanitarian tone posters have achieved in the board wide critical discussion of this tragic and apocalyptic (™) event.

And when the planes fall out of the sky, rationing is reintroduced, Spenborough and Cleckheaton are burning and we are wiping our bums on rocks because we've run out of luxury EU loo roll, we will remember that you, Francine, modelled it for us first, via the medium of interpretive dance. We may well cry tears of thankfulness at that point. Dance away dear girl, dance away!

Do not feed the hairy handed looney.

And, if you get a chance, please do sign the Independent petition here:

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal?recruiter=57963968&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

Francine hurry and answer the question!!! do i book flights to Mallorca next May or not? only 4 seats left at this price and i dont want to miss out?

Or play it safe and a weeks BnB in Moreton on the Marsh?

jasjas1973 what? I am saying the complete opposite.
It is going to be complete and utter BREXMAGEDDON..I predict at least 3-4 centuries which will make the Dark Ages look like the Renaissance. We will regress to an era without writing, law and order or stone masonry. We will become hunter-gatherers once more. It's going to be jolly inconvenient and dashed difficult to get Perdita to her dance class if there are no roads and not petrol for the Range Rover. Bugger it.