to warn of possible grounding of passenger flights and air freight from 29th March

[Clairetree1]

In order for any plane to take off or land in the UK from the 29th March, we need either

a) an agreement that we can still be included in the European aviation safety agreement, including agreeing to be bound by the European courts.

or

b) The UK civil aviation authority needs to set up its own safety agreement, write all its policies, establish it rules, negotiate with approximately 25 separate governments to come to an agreement that these rules are acceptable for planes flying into and out of their countries ( including the EU and USA), recruit and train several thousand staff, buy and adapt premises, put maintenance and safety procedures into action, to the satisfaction of said 25 governments, under go and pass international inspection and get underway.

My friend in civil aviation has been shouting louder and louder about this for over a year, as time ticks by and nothing whatsoever is done to make progress towards either a or b.

He tells me there was an article about this on the BBC website earlier, but it appears to have been taken down now, at least I can't find it.

Anybody prepared to buy air tickets for April 2019?

It's somewhere between the two isn't it.. you always have to carry on day to day things but you do also need to be aware of your surroundings and consider the possible direction events are going and maybe take action.

I certainly don't want to return to living with the passive fatalism that underscored my teenage years during the cold war, days where you would glance out of the window at the sparrows in the trees and it would cross your thoughts that they could all be vapourised by this time tomorrow... then pull your mind back to what the History teacher was telling you about the tudors....

of course that was different though, we were contemplating total annihilation and it was completely outside of our control.

Now we are contemplating the slow disintegration of our country and society, and some or all of it might still be rectifiable, if we could work out which way to pull.... that's why this is worth talking about, whereas the possibility of nuclear holocaust never was.

After 29th March, 2019 all that will be left of Upper Slaughter, Stowe and Moreton in Marsh (thank you Peregrina) is three teetering piles of golden yellow rubble.

Mark. My. Words.

"If you can't stop the signal increase the noise"

Clairetree1
So glad you're back. You said earlier, and I quote...
Some german officials seem to be even hoping UK airspace will be shut down, as a lesson to anyone else thinking of exiting the EU.

Please add the link or reference to the "german officials" advocating this. I Googled but couldn't find. We should definitely collaborate with them!!

According to a local history book I read when I used to live near Moreton, the name is a corruption of Moreton Henmarsh, I think they say that because the makes it sound less dreary.
In reality it's a lovely little market town, though as PP have pointed out, frequently one long traffic jam.

it makes it sound less dreary...

Clairetree

Despite Francine attempting to hijack this thread and prevent any sensible discussion, can I just say thank you for starting this one? There have been some really interesting and informative posters on here. It's just a shame about some of the crap you have to wade through to read them.

Actually @FrancinePefko42 I hope you do keep posting on these threads, you are doing a sterling job keeping them in the 'active' list were more people can see them and at the same time showing posters that the Leaves have nothing of substance to say and no serious solutions to the problems posted.

Interesting bit of info borntobequiet. Do love a bit of local history.

Brexit will be felt just as badly in the Cotswolds as elsewhere. People only ever see the cotswold stone mansions and estates. They often don’t see the grinding rural poverty. My area voted Leave but now there is a lot of concern about the impact on the tourist trade, farming and local small industry. My village is about 50% luxury boutique hotels, 25% luxury restaurants, 10% designer homeward, 5% boutique tat shops and 5% useful things for locals. Any drop in tourism is going to have a pretty devastating effect. The three hotels employ most of the village, the rest work in the shops and restaurants.

Hear, hear, LoveInTokyo
Three cheers for Clairetree1. Hip hip hip...Hurrah!!

But could you please, please, PLEASE share more about the German Officials you are in communication with?

Some german officials seem to be even hoping UK airspace will be shut down, as a lesson to anyone else thinking of exiting the EU

It would be good if we could let them know they have friends over here. I take it you are already sending them pictures of our beaches, landing strips and bridges....Once they have a clear run of the air - nothing to prevent the final putsch.

Francine, my grandfather was in the RAF during the war. He was shot down over Berlin and spent two years in a POW camp before being freed by the allies.

If he were here today he would tell you what an absolute idiot you are being. (And utterly shameless to boot.)

LoveInTokyo
You'd think so KennDodd, but the sad thing is there were paid trolls like Francine on these boards before the referendum too, and although you'd think any sensible person would look at them and think, "whatever they are supporting must be the wrong thing", they did manage to derail the debate (both on Mumsnet and other social media) and leave still won

LoveInTokyo, my paymasters have told me that I will get many, many Roubles if I can get the names and MySpace pages of the German Officials she is in touch with. So I am afraid you're stuck with me until she spills the beans on exactly who they are and when they said this:

Some german officials seem to be even hoping UK airspace will be shut down, as a lesson to anyone else thinking of exiting the EU

I do so agree about rural poverty. However attractive the Cotswolds, the Peak District, the Lakes, Snowdonia just to mention some places, you can't live on scenery. Think little or no public transport, few or no local shops. If your school or pub closes down you have had it, there is nothing. Added to which, locals being priced out of the home ownership market because of second home buyers. It's no wonder that young people up and leave and never go back.

LoveInTokyo
My grandfather was in the RAF during the war

How would he have felt about the German Officials
hoping UK airspace will be shut down, as a lesson to anyone else thinking of exiting the EU?

There is an interesting point to be made ther LoveinTokyo about the anti- EU generational divide.

My dad grew up during the war and is very Pro Europe and EU. He worries about all of Europe being set against each other again. My grandfather, who fought in the war was very pro-EU too.

My mum, who is much younger, is vehemently anti-EU. She has talked before about what Britain fought for and how we are plucky survivors. Except she never witnessed it. Or rationing. Or the bombings. She never lost family and friends to the war. It wasn’t her generation that did it.

All of my older relatives who remember WW2 voted Remain. I find that interesting.

MissSusanSays

I completely agree and have noticed the same trend. I don't have a source for this but according to someone I met who works at Ipsos Mori, everyone over 65 was grouped together in the same age bracket for most of the post referendum analysis, but a more detailed breakdown of the figures shows that the very oldest voters (i.e. the ones who actually remember the war) were much more pro remain, because they don't take peace for granted.

The baby boomer generation (who are unfortunately the biggest voting group) grew up on a post war diet of "We beat Jerry and saved the cheese eating surrender monkeys" propaganda. They grew up close enough to the war to see Germans as the enemy and the French as their inferiors, but not close enough to the war to actually experience the terror of it.

The under 45s grew up in the EEC/EU and were far enough away from the war to see it as something you study in history at school. We aren't conditioned to hate the Germans and look down on the French. The young people who voted leave tended to be the ones from more deprived areas who feel they haven't really seen the (admittedly rather middle class) benefits of EU membership and maybe thought they would have more jobs and more opportunities if we had lower immigration. I don't see the same xenophobia in younger leave voters as I do in the (often very well off) baby boomers.

About boomers, my parents are part of that generation and neither they nor many other boomers are like that (thank God) BUT they have always said that on the whole it is the most hedonistic and selfish (their words not mine)- it's always been about having the cake and eating it. There is a large number of them that said f*k off to their parents in the 60s-70s and now says f*k off to their kids and grand-kids. And to the planet as a whole. My dad calls them Generation 'Locusts'...
Harsh I know.

For what it's worth I think my generation's sin (GenX er here) is apathy. We're not doing much...

100% agree quietrebel

I love my mum but her main focus is always ow much she can consume- holidays, shoes, houses, decorating. My DH and I have had to speak to her, quite gently, about not just buying random tat for our house.

I do wonder what will become of the kind of garden centre that is mostly clothes/shoes/tat and a cafe once this generation is gone. Because my generation will not have that much expendable incom once retired.

I do wonder what will become of the kind of garden centre that is mostly clothes/shoes/tat and a cafe once this generation is gone

Like the one in Moreton, you mean?

I know that garden centre in Moreton! I did once buy a very warm coat in their sale though, so not all bad. And actually, some nice reconstituted stone troughs for the garden when I lived locally...ah, how it brings it all back to me...the one time I went to the cafe the service was terrible.

Precisely like the one in Moreton! To me it is like the ninth circle of hell. But they are catnip to my mum. I don’t know why since she never buys anything. I suppose because they are the last places on earth to serve jacket potato as a main.

Fucking jacket potato.