to warn of possible grounding of passenger flights and air freight from 29th March

[Clairetree1]

In order for any plane to take off or land in the UK from the 29th March, we need either

a) an agreement that we can still be included in the European aviation safety agreement, including agreeing to be bound by the European courts.

or

b) The UK civil aviation authority needs to set up its own safety agreement, write all its policies, establish it rules, negotiate with approximately 25 separate governments to come to an agreement that these rules are acceptable for planes flying into and out of their countries ( including the EU and USA), recruit and train several thousand staff, buy and adapt premises, put maintenance and safety procedures into action, to the satisfaction of said 25 governments, under go and pass international inspection and get underway.

My friend in civil aviation has been shouting louder and louder about this for over a year, as time ticks by and nothing whatsoever is done to make progress towards either a or b.

He tells me there was an article about this on the BBC website earlier, but it appears to have been taken down now, at least I can't find it.

Anybody prepared to buy air tickets for April 2019?

As if.

Hundreds of flights every day fly into the UK or through UK airspace which have nothing to do with the EU. Rules will carry on as they are at present until the UK government decides to change them.

I know several people working in this sector and none are concerned. The European Air Traffic Control centre in Brussels covers 41 countries, some of which are not in the EU.

Stop scaremongering.

I've just googled and found an article that claims the likes of Thomas Cook and TUI have changed their conditions to say that there won't be payouts if airspace is closed due to Brexit

Presumably they mean that they won't pay compensation, or pay out for your incidental expenses, such as airport accommodation or parking or car hire. If they can't get you to your destination, they will have to refund the cost of the package you've booked through them, surely.

Don't worry OP, since some people feel that the sky is falling there won't be ANY flights ANYWHERE

Lol. Without UK flights to Spain entire towns will collapse economically.

Majorca would lose a third of its tourist income in one go.

The thing is, most EU countries like us and want us to come and spend our cash. There's no way their governments are going to ban us from entry. Their own economies would instantly tank.

I am not booking any holidays until March 30th. I want to know that (a) flights will be happening and I am not losing £££ if they are not (is Ryanair REALLY going to provide refunds, I thought they'd deliberately pit it in their terms that they weren't to blame if their planes were grounded), and (b) that I can get through passport control in the relevant destination.

The world is run by commerce, not by governments, hopefully we can put our faith in them to sort it out

You'd hope so wouldn't you?

I'm getting really fed up of these "the world is going to end" threads.

I voted remain. I'm not happy that we're pulling out of the EU. But that doesn't mean that the future is apocalyptic. I think some posters are going to be so disappointed when we wake up next April and everything carries on more or less unchanged.

oh no :( All the rich people will have their holidays spoilt.

Oh FFS! Stop it. It won't happen. Flights will go on normally. It is in no one's interests for them not to. Tourism, business, airfreight, use of our airspace. It works both ways.

I’m a remainder, and I was very vocal at the time about all the potential issues - the Irish border, travel, farming, food prices etc etc etc. I would like nothing more than for Brexit to be a roaring success and my worrying to have been for nothing as the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about. I just don’t see how it can happen though.

The problem is that negotiations can’t start on a lot of things until we have a Brexit deal, whatever that looks like. I just don’t see how there is enough time left; it was a big ask in terms of time scale even if things had moved at a rapid pace all along. Anything at this point will be cobbled together and poorly thought out because there is literally no time left.

This reminds me of the Y2K drama where the computers would all fail, lifts would be grounded, planes would fall out of the sky, automatic doors wouldn’t work, emergency services phones would crash, cash machines wouldn’t work. And yet, here we all are, right as rain. I’m sure all will be ok.

Eurocontrol
EUROCONTROL is an inter-governmental organisation, not an EU body. We have many non-EU members. The UK was a member of EUROCONTROL before it joined the EEC and its membership will continue after Brexit.
Hopefully Air Traffic Management will go smoothly. However, it appears some airlines are not willing to risk their money on it.

Here’s a thread from Sky news about the possible local impact of Brexit.

Planes might still fly but there are other things at risk.

Anyone who thinks nothing will change is stupid, complicit or a coward.

Link: mobile.twitter.com/zachjourno/status/1024580520892674049

cafenoirbiscuit You do realise a lot of people worked for years to ensure the millenium bug didn't happen? It was a huge industry, companies didn't just stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it wasn't happening

oh no sad All the rich people will have their holidays spoilt.

Dont be silly, loads of people on very budgets still manage to go on holiday abroad

*Here’s a thread from Sky news about the possible local impact of Brexit.

Planes might still fly but there are other things at risk.

Anyone who thinks nothing will change is stupid, complicit or a coward.*

Says the poster who was too stupid to the post the actual link she was talking about.

I am not in the least bit optimistic.

There are approximately 32 weeks left in which to plan and negotiate and agree and it is a hugely onerous task. I think there is every reason that we will crash out as this shower of shite politicians couldn't run a whelk stall (that includes JC too), let alone plan our withdrawal from the EU.

Here's what the European Commission says:
Preparedness notices
[[https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/legislation/brexit-notice-to-stakeholders-aviation-safety.pdfEUROPEAN COMMISSION, Notice to Stakeholders
WITHDRAWAL OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND EU AVIATION SAFETY RULES]]
'The United Kingdom submitted on 29 March 2017 the notification of its intention to withdraw from the Union pursuant to Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union. This means that, unless a ratified withdrawal agreement1 establishes another date, all Union primary and secondary law will cease to apply to the United Kingdom from 30 March 2019, 00:00h (CET) ('the withdrawal date').2 The United Kingdom will then become a 'third country'.3
Preparing for the withdrawal is not just a matter for EU and national authorities but also for private parties.'

and...

EUROPEAN COMMISSION Notice to Stakeholders WITHDRAWAL OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND EU RULES IN THE FIELD OF AIR TRANSPORT
'As of the withdrawal date, the United Kingdom will automatically cease to be covered by air transport agreements of the Union, whether these have been entered into by the Union alone (e.g. the Air Transport Agreement with Switzerland6) or by the Union and its Member States acting jointly (e.g. the Air Transport Agreement with the USA7). This has, in particular, consequences as regards access to designation/traffic rights and other areas covered by the said agreements.'

It won't be fiiiiine! It'll be fucking chaos for months and months .

We are going to Florida next summer

And possibly to vist freinds abroad for a week in February or march next year

Ill make sure its before the end of march

Of course things are going to change. But it's totally irresponsible to paint this picture of the UK on 1st April next year which is something like the zombie apocalypse with no food, no medicine, planes not flying, no power, no anything.

That's stupid.

The normal British person is going to get up, go to work, come home to have dinner and watch telly just like any other day.

Anyone who thinks nothing will change is stupid, complicit or a coward.

As opposed to plain RUDE like you are .

I'm sure we'll be able to dust off the old horse and cart and take holidays in the UK instead.

re airtraffic: planes cant just fly into airspace without filing flight plans first - otherwise there would be crashes - the airspace over London & the se is what is called controlled airspace & for us to go through Europe & its boundaries (it is a complicated procedure going from one area to another getting permission & putting through flight plans) at the moment we have a co-ordinated situation but opting out of Europe has caused a lot of these agreement to unravel. The issue is that Europe would like to claw back some of these things because they would financial benefit ie taking over some of the international flights from Heathrow etc. Same as the banking & finance from London. My concern is about medication - & the just in time factor of people only having a month at a time drugs from the NHS - I recently had a problem with a specific medication where the production changed from USA to Europe it took months to get new production up & running & available in the pharmacy - which doesn't make me feel that confident about how they will manage.

But it's totally irresponsible to paint this picture of the UK on 1st April next year which is something like the zombie apocalypse with no food, no medicine, planes not flying, no power, no anything

I agree, it'll take at least a couple of days for the food and medicines to run out once people start panic buying. Planes may well not fly if no agreement is reached. Power is unlikely to go off, but there may be brownouts depending on the weather.

we sure will, not least because there won't be any petrol coming into the country.

As for people saying “this will be sorted”
That’s great, how exactly?