Any remainers here who don't think civilisation is about to collapse?

[Bloodylovepotatoes]

Die hard remainer here. Was gutted with referendum result, but I think it'll probably be a bit crap after for a while, then it'll level out and basically be fine. Don't think society will collapse.

Apparently this is a very unpopular opinion and either I should be a defiant leaver saying all will be wonderful and we'll have our sovereignty back and our blue passports and all those nasty foreigners will be gone, or I should be boarding up all my doors and windows and preparing myself for economic collapse and societal disintegration?

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

So what what do we say to all those that voted to leave?

Personally I think that we are committed to Leave because I believe in democracy.

I think that Leavers would agree that Article 50 should not have been triggered when it was and that the referendum question was far too vague. I suspect that if the question specified Hard Brexit then many Leavers who only wanted a Soft Brexit would have voted to Remain. The vague nature of the referendum question means that people who voted Leave and hoping for a Hard Brexit will be as pissed off as much as the Remainers about a Soft Brexit/No Deal scenario. I suspect that a more specific question would have meant the vote swung the other way and we wouldn't have to worry about next year.

Still not sure why responding to the government's own warnings about shortages is hysterical, but worrying about a civil war lead mainly by pensioners who apparently want those shortages above anything else is perfectly reasonable.

Those that voted leave may well suffer, but many are happy to suffer for the cause it seems.
I very, very much doubt that.
They all think that other people (especially Forriners like me) will suffer.

I know Brexiters who are still looking at buying property in Spain to retire
because they cannot get it into their heads that Freedom of Movement will cut both ways

Brexit is like the tooth fairy. Unreal.
When people say "just get on with it" they are ALL unable to define what it means ...

and until they do I will remind them that the vote was advisory
and now that the implications are clear it should be ignored
and the effort of the UK government put into dealing with the structural issues that caused the vote

rainingcatsanddog I am with you entirely. Moderate and reasonable doesn't seem to be very fashionable these days. Everyone is in the trenches, I can only speak for my family and circles of friends. Most of us just want a good deal and to get on with life. I am not excited about the idea of visas if they happen or whatever as we have a house overseas and I am worried where it leaves us legally with our rights etc.

The mess needs to be cleared up, there is a lot to do. We need some adults in the room before it is too late. Anyone volunteering?

@mineisarossini It's in the report from Sussex uni linked a few posts down.

I know Brexiters who are still looking at buying property in Spain to retire
because they cannot get it into their heads that Freedom of Movement will cut both ways

My SIL runs an estate agency in Spain. She has Brexiteers saying they’re looking at buying a place in Spain ‘before brexit messes it up and stops us moving out here’. The mind boggles!

Great to see some level headed remainers on here finally.
Shame Ta1kinpeace is drowning you all out though - but he knows best.

PineappleSunrise As much as we might like to, I don't think we can simply ignore the other side.
I was in London seven years ago with the last riots and it was not pretty. I would not like to see full scale versions of that all over the country, we haven't the resources to deal with it. So no, I am not especially keen on just ignoring the vote. We have to come to a middle ground at some point and concessions need to be made on both sides, then we may just get a version that is mostly acceptable to mostly everyone.

Hey potatoes, can you have a word with rossini about the riots? You say they were nothing and, she says we will have them everywhere unless we have a No Deal Brexit. Which one of you is the most level headed?

How much would a collapsible civilisation cost in IKEA?

PineappleSunrise I see that you are not the reasonable remainer you pretend to be, but another staunch and it just isn't helpful. I stand to lose more than you I would imagine, if this goes tits up, trust me. But we won't unite the country with ignorance and burying our heads in the sand.

We have all forgotten the art of debate, listening to the other side, of clear and practical thinking. I can't get worked up about any of it, mainly because the optimist in me thinks the EU are not stupid they will come to the table with a good deal, at the eleventh hour and it will be okay.

Civilisation will not collapse and anyone claiming remainers think so is indulging in pure hyperbole. Short term disruption of supply is perfectly possible as we try to iron out the kinks of a major trade deal upheaval.

You say they were nothing and, she says we will have them everywhere unless we have a No Deal Brexit.

I didn't say they were nothing, I said we picked ourselves up and carried on after, and I don't think she said there would be riots everywhere if there was a No Deal Brexit, she said there would be rioting if we didn't leave the EU.

To me, 'get on with it' means sign the best deal that we can get and what will be, will be.

I didn't say they were nothing, I said we picked ourselves up and carried on after,

Yes but there wasn't an ongoing shortage of food and medication afterwards, was there?

But here's a question: why should we have to? Whys should we have to accept that riots due to food shortages and medication shortages in peace time are likely to happen. But that's OK - we'll dust ourselves off and just come to terms with massive price hikes, even though so many families are barely managing even as it is?

Because 17 million people ticked a box on one day two years ago in an advisory referendum?
Did they really vote to be poorer? Did they really vote to go hungry? Because if they didn't then implementing a policy that will create extra poverty and hunger is not meeting the will of people.

Perhaps there will be riots if brexit is cancelled. Those riots will be on a par with 2011. Some people are disorderly - violence in towns centres, looting - and then it will be clamped down and order restored - as 2011.

If the riots are post brexit because people are hungry - their children are hungry - they aren't getting vital medication ...then they will not be swept up and forgotten about like 2011. People will riot as long as they are hungry. And even once we start getting supplies back through - the massive price hikes will guarantee that some members of society will remain hungry... and therefore liable to riot again.

That kind of situation could lead us down a very dark political road indeed. We have already seen the beginnings of that with major publications using tricks straight from the fascists handbook and labelling people doing their job and ensuring that the rule of law is obeyed as 'traitors' and 'enemies of the people.'

This is a democracy. We do not have to carry out a policy of extreme harm that will make life shit for all the ordinary members of the public just because on 1 day 2 years ago 37% of the electorate thought that it sounded like a good idea.

What do we tell the people who voted leave? You were lied to. You voted for an impossibility. The consequences of that vote is going to make the life and future of British citizens much harder and poorer than is strictly necessary and that is not on and cannot be allowed to happen. You cannot have what you wanted because it is not possible, and unfortunately it never was. Deal with it. Be angry, by all means - be furious - but keep it within the law or you will face prosecution.

Bloodylovepotatoes Thank you Potatoes. I would like to think people will be sensible about whatever comes to bear in the new year, but I do worry that no exit at all of any kind would signal something very rotten and corrupt indeed. That has the potential to cause a much more serious consequence. I can't get that worked up about a few food shortages but I am minded to respect the vote despite my own misgivings.

but I am minded to respect the vote despite my own misgivings.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

If you have misgivings - listen to them. If you believe something is a terrible idea - shout about it.
Don't be a passive spectator in your own future. It won't end well.

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

Die hard leaver here.

I'm slap, bang in the middle ground with you!

Remainer here.

I am not expecting the collapse of civilisation but I am expecting a collapsed in living standards and potentially some real nastiness in Northern Ireland, neither of which should be underestimated.

Be angry, by all means - be furious - but keep it within the law or you will face prosecution. We simply do not have the policing or military resources to control the leaver backlash is my fear. I can not imagine the leavers will keep within the law, why would they, they would have lost all respect for every political structure. They will have nothing to lose, and that is a very dangerous situation. Not to mention the complete loss of confidence in any voting system or government. Where would that leave us as a country? I don't see any real alternative to delivering brexit in some capacity, we should be putting our energies into getting the best possible deal not just ignoring the vote or pretending it doesn't count.
I am not entirely sure we would win a second ref either. Far better to go for the soft brexit route with a hope that we can get everyone to the table in time.

What is the unthinkable?

Very high inflation caused by falling value of the pound
Foreigners deported, Windrush style, and UK expats deported from EU in tit-for-tat
Commercial flights grounded for weeks or months
UK passports no longer recognised as we leave the Passport Union
Power cuts
Etc.

Some interesting impact assessments, fully referenced so you know he's not making it up:
www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86697

And then there's the usual boring recession stuff like mass unemployment and collapsing house prices. The middle classes mostly got through the financial crisis and subsequent austerity unscathed, so they are in danger of feeling that they can't and won't be affected by a far more major downturn.

Icantreachthepretzels I can shout all I want, it won't change the vote. I can carry on shouting to I am hoarse but that isn't going to change the outcome in the new year. It is out of our hands now.

OP looks like you and other posters are astro-turfing. There are very sound reasons to be concerned about a no-deal brexit scenario and to prepare accordingly.

Mumsnet central you need to look into these sorts of posts and posters - is the OP a new poster? Are supporting posters new? What IP do they use, what nation does it resolve to? Are they using VPNs or anonymous proxies to access mumsnet? You also need to call out threads where you find suspicious activity so that readers can judge the content and behaviour of posters for themselves.

Agustarella I think you have missed the point of the thread, or have posted on the wrong one. We are middle ground and not feeling the world will end.

Excuse me, indistinct, I've been on MN for ages. Just because I'm not panicking you think I'm some sort of stooge?! Seriously, get a grip.