Any remainers here who don't think civilisation is about to collapse?

[Bloodylovepotatoes]

Die hard remainer here. Was gutted with referendum result, but I think it'll probably be a bit crap after for a while, then it'll level out and basically be fine. Don't think society will collapse.

Apparently this is a very unpopular opinion and either I should be a defiant leaver saying all will be wonderful and we'll have our sovereignty back and our blue passports and all those nasty foreigners will be gone, or I should be boarding up all my doors and windows and preparing myself for economic collapse and societal disintegration?

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

rossini, you don't sound moderate at all. You sound like you think civilisation is about to collapse if we don't get the most economically damaging Brexit.

No she doesn't pineapple.

What the hell is astro-turfing when it is at home?

PineappleSunrise I happen to think civilisation will not collapse in either scenario. I am of the opinion that prices for food will increase, as will medicine and other products but I am not buying the empty shelves and no electricity sorry.

Why doesn't she, potatoes? She's just explained that:

• she is afraid of a UK civil war
• she is worried that there will be uncontrollable riots all over the country if people don't get their imagined version of Brexit
• she has stated that the police would not be able to cope with the level of civil disturbance

How does that not sound like the collapse of civilisation?

And how does that make people who are buying some extra supplies before a known risk of food chain disruption extremists, but rossini a moderate?

Love the comment ‘we’ve had incompetent governments before and done ok’ . All depends upon your circumstances and where you live. You might have done ok but plenty other people and areas haven’t Some of us haven’t got oodle of cash to cushion us from the shitstorm caused by austerity and now Brexit

We simply do not have the policing or military resources to control the leaver backlash is my fear

Then we certainly don't have the policing and military resources for food riots.

we should be putting our energies into getting the best possible deal

We have absolutely no power over this. It's down to the govt and they're not doing it. In such circumstances we are free to continue to fight for what we believe is best - rather than pressure the govt to do something that we think is bad, but better than what they are doing. It is our democratic right to fight for what we believe in - and it is our duty as citizens and human beings to fight against something that we believe will cause terrible hardships for our fellow citizens (and ourselves).

And what of the 16 million? There is no brexit that will satisfy all 17 million leavers. For some Norway+, anything other than a crash out, is a betrayal and they will riot. But some voted for more money for the NHS - so anything that jeopardises that (like a crash out) is a betrayal.

And yet here we are - worrying about alienating and disenfranchising these various factions because we cannot give them all what they want and yet every other aspect of British politics has come to a grinding halt - we are seeing massive problems popping up in all sorts of sectors - because the govt are paralysed with squaring a circle so that 17 million people - all after different things - don;t lose faith in the political system.

Well what about the 16 million - who didn't vote for anything about this but are now hearing about food and medication shortages, and plans to bring in the army to helicopter supplies, and being threatened with riots if the other half don't get their way? What about their alienation? or their faith in the political system? Based on the slenderest of majorities -we should be getting the softest of brexits - so why doesn't the feelings of the remainers count for anything? because we are headed to a very hard brexit if not a complete crash out.

Oh no - wait - I do know the answer to this ...we lost get over it

well no - I'm not going to - and I'm not going to accept that the worst and most harmful act Britain has committed against itself - possibly ever has to go ahead, because some people might riot. I'm not intimidated by that threat - an no one else should be. Lack of insulin though? yeah - that scares me.

Why can't do we all have to be bunched together like this, it is quite offensive that you are trying to imply that I am not a strong remainer (or somehow sub standard to you) just because I don't believe a baptism of fire is about to descend, I think you will find there is more people out there that sit in the middle like me than those with the tin hats burying deeper into the more extreme views.

We voted to stay within the EU, I genuinely didn't consider that this would not happen at the time, and the shock was quite profound.

Becoming ever more extreme is not the answer. It never was, and it never will be.

There won't be food riots.

Love this threat of mass rioting if the hard Brexiters don’t get their way. (And you lot called us “Project Fear!”)

The reality is, millions of leavers are middle class pensioners who aren’t really known for rioting. Millions of other people (whether originally leave or remain) are thoroughly bored with the whole thing and couldn’t give a fuck any more. Millions of other leavers are perfectly nice, civilised people who believe we should leave the EU but are simply not the kind of people who would ever go round committing acts of violence and criminal damage.

Who’s going to riot?

A few yobs who will always find a reason to riot. And maybe a few very desperate poor people who will most likely riot anyway when hard Brexit leaves them even worse off than they already are.

Agustarella I think you have missed the point of the thread, or have posted on the wrong one. We are middle ground and not feeling the world will end

@mineisarossini I was speculating as to what factors might make you all "middle ground" as you would put it, and whether some relevant, well-referenced information might help to shift your views (as I understand them) that Brexit has no significant downside, for reasons that are never clearly stated. It's interesting that people react, as in real life, by "shooting the messenger" rather than by engaging with the message.

Icantreachthepretzels Okay how do we do it then? I am listening, how do we fight? Because I have written to our MP and I didn't even receive a reply. What do you suggest we do?

Some of us haven’t got oodle of cash to cushion us from the shitstorm caused by austerity and now Brexit

What exactly makes you think I've got oodles of cash?

As I said upthread, my parents are in this country because of a military coup in their home country which killed most of my extended family. So bore off with your assumptions about me and my life. I grew up on a council state, the eldest of five with a single mum. Believe you me we know all about austerity.

Brexit has no significant downside, for reasons that are never clearly stated

I certainly don't think it has no downside, I just don't think it will be quite as horrific as is often made out on here.

I'm not worried, really.

My job will be safe even though we do split of business with Europe. Do plenty more with UK and non eu countries and tbh what we supply is niche so Europe will still buy I assume.

My actual job will become a massive pain in the arse depending on what they decide the import / export regulations for eu countries will be. Just means more paperwork for me.

I think we'll have a bit of a wobble, everyone will panick, whinge a bit and well go back to normal. Things probably won't change an awful lot and well all be left wondering why we had a bloody referendum in the first place.

I'll be fine. Mortgage nearly paid off, secure job, DP has a secure job, allotment to grow veggies on, bright kids studying for secure professions.

I'll be fine.

But I don't want to live in a society where people rely on food banks, where the NHS has no staff, where casual racism is acceptable, where we have no H&S legislation. Civilisation won't end but people will go hungry, jobs will be lost, the working classes will be screwed over by unrestrained Tory legislation.

No civilisation won't end but I set my bar for a happy society a bit higher than that.

Well what about the 16 million - who didn't vote for anything about this but are now hearing about food and medication shortages, and plans to bring in the army to helicopter supplies, and being threatened with riots if the other half don't get their way? What about their alienation? or their faith in the political system? Based on the slenderest of majorities -we should be getting the softest of brexits - so why doesn't the feelings of the remainers count for anything? because we are headed to a very hard brexit if not a complete crash out.

THIS, in spades.

Haven’t RTFT so apologies if repeating but this article is very detailed & chilling about food imports/exports.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

We’re already short of govt vets - many are EU nationals & they’re leaving. Farage was faced with that on LBC & it silenced him - which is not normal

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-finally-left-speechless-13002252

where casual racism is acceptable

As a POC, I hate to disillusion you but I'm afraid casual racism has been acceptable my entire life in this country.

I can shout all I want, it won't change the vote. I can carry on shouting to I am hoarse but that isn't going to change the outcome in the new year. It is out of our hands now.

But I thought you wanted us to be putting our energies into getting the best possible deal? How come fighting to affect change in govt policy so that we get the best possible deal is where we should be focusing, but fighting to change govt policy so that we remain is out of our hands?

Shouting in the form of letters to your mp - and letters of support to mps who are fighting for what you want, signing petitions, going on marches and raising awareness on social media can make a big difference.

I mean - sure you can all do that stuff for a soft brexit - but as that will still keep some leavers unhappy, won't appease the ERG and you don't want it anyway ... it seems a bit pointless. Also it is far harder for us to try and influence international negotiations than it is for us to tell our own govt to just stop it.

Will causing a fuss ultimately change the direction of brexit? Who knows ... doesn't mean the fight isn't worth fighting. Even if you think it is completely pointless and it won't make a difference - the fight is still worth fighting for its own sake. If only so you can look your starving children in the eye and say 'I did all I could.'

pretzels you implying children are going to starve to death if we leave the EU is the very definition of scaremongering. Vile.

where casual racism is acceptable

Have we really got to a point where we blame everything on brexit, casual racism has always existed, I can show you proof of golly dolls, racist depictions of black people and things like the 'p' word being used from every decade if you really believe it's recent.

Reality Check. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44904619

We won't get large scale riots🙄