Any remainers here who don't think civilisation is about to collapse?

[Bloodylovepotatoes]

Die hard remainer here. Was gutted with referendum result, but I think it'll probably be a bit crap after for a while, then it'll level out and basically be fine. Don't think society will collapse.

Apparently this is a very unpopular opinion and either I should be a defiant leaver saying all will be wonderful and we'll have our sovereignty back and our blue passports and all those nasty foreigners will be gone, or I should be boarding up all my doors and windows and preparing myself for economic collapse and societal disintegration?

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

I don't think NI are interested in a reunification with the rest of Ireland. I can't see the UK breaking up, nor empty shelves but maybe some uncertainty for a few weeks in March and market wobbles.
It will be a damp squib. I am betting on an extension anyway so March will come and go and things will remain the same.

Yup. I’m with you op.
So bored of the hubris.

And they've invaded another thread to correct any opinion that isn't there own.

Yes, that's pretty much what I think mine although let's face it none of us really know do we.

However I firmly believe that the UK government will blink first and we will get a Norway style BINO

I hope you are right.

clownfaces
Let's just get it over with.
Get WHAT over with?
Which version of Brexit do you envisage ?

It's not just a couple of easily avoided luxuries like olives and capers that are at risk. (God, if only!) It's basically fresh foods, and some medicines like insulin.

The UK is nowhere near self-sufficient and we will not be anywhere near being so by next Spring. Much of our food comes into the country via the EU (yes, even a lot of the non-EU foods).

It's not that there COULDN'T be a way to keep things moving, it's that so far there appears to be no political will to make a viable plan an we are running out of implementation time. Hence the government suddenly talking about stockpiling to cover their arses, but trying to get industry to do it for them. (And they've been told where to go in no uncertain terms.)

I suppose it's great that so many people are still so trusting and have faith in our political leadership (I am no fan of nihilism), but I'm not sure this government is looking out for our interests at all.

We are in finance and no one is going anywhere in London, some banks are opening tiny operations in Amsterdam and similar. I know of no wholesale moves at the moment.
Only rumble might be Deutsche bank, but they have their own not insignificant problems already (and are barely viable these days) and were already shedding staff and losing huge sums of money well before brexit to be fair. I don't know what will happen in other industries.

What jobs do people think are going to be lost? Genuine question. My DH works in finance (no we are not minted before anyone starts, he works in a support role), and he is not worried and nor are any of his colleagues.

People already have lost jobs. Two people in my, quite small, immediate group of friends have lost their jobs directly as a result of brexit. One worked in finance and has had to relocate to Dublin with her young children, the other for an insurance company who's head office is in mainland Europe and almost immediately made almost all of their UK staff redundant.

Another friend has a husband who is a farmer. His job is fine, but nearly all of the European migrant seasonal workers who used to pick for him left in the aftermath of brexit. Which has obvs had a knock on effect to him and his permanent workers.

For people to say they don't see how brexit effects jobs, I'm just assuming they haven't (yet) been touched by it. Doesn't mean it isn't a harsh reality elsewhere.

Really have no idea how this is going to turn out and neither do the politicians! I am worried but there is not a lot we can do. I don't really trust anyone involved in the process. I am Remain and wish the whole thing wasn't happening.

Yeah don't forget David Cameron he lost his job as a direct result of brexit.

What jobs will be lost?

If we are making the assumption of a no customs union, hard Brexit ....

• many manufacturers who are currently integrated into the EU supply chain (particularly cars and engineering) will cease to be viable once customs and clearance and stock holding costs kick in

• many fisheries jobs, as much of what is caught in the UK's waters is currently exported without delay to mainland Europe

• many financial services jobs as without 'passporting rights' UK banks will not be able to clear for EU customers

• many restaurant jobs because lots of restaurants rely on cheap imports of fresh food daily from mainland Europe. Their profit margins are wafer thin so they will shed staff

Why would food coming in be held up? We want it, right? So, why would we hold it up?? Genuine question....sorry if v stupid

I suppose it's great that so many people are still so trusting and have faith in our political leadership

I don't, particularly!

what, you mean you aren't a total extremist of either the 'EU is utterly brilliant' or 'the map is still pink' type? You are able to see that there is both good and bad about the EU?

no. not possible. MN refuses to accept the existence of such. You must be an illusion.

Canadian style deal is my best guess perhaps with some extra mutual benefits. I can't see how the Norway/Swiss frame work will solve the main contentious issues of brexit.
I would not want to see our democracy damaged by forcing a revote, it would be especially bad if remain did not do as well as expected, but I do think it is prudent to get the best deal possible and then revisit the decision in years to come and evaluate whether it works or not.

There is nothing to say we can't change things, update them in the future.

Leaving feels final, but in reality we can't move the country several hundred miles away, we are not leaving anything we are interlinked and entwined by culture, history and trade. That won't change. The EU will remain neighbours and friends.

Ah but do you have more trust In the leaders than random Mumsnet fear inducers?

Well, if you're not paying close attention to what they're doing or what their goals are, but you believe everything will be fine, you must be trusting someone to be competent and put the national good first!

I really can't bring myself to feel sorry for David Cameron!

Ive not heard anyone say that it's going to be the end of the world. I'm expecting water to come out the tap, cash to be available from cash machines and police to keep law and order.

Some people will rightly be bricking it. For example people reliant on medication (apparently massive amounts are imported from the EU) people who drive lorries to/from the continent etc I can't tell them not to worry as their lives could change if there's no deal or a hard Brexit.

If there is no deal I predict weeks/months of shortages then when stock is located, a price rise. If I had a baby (or was expecting one) I'd be researching where the factories are and stockpiling formula and nappies for sure.

Every time there's a snow storm, supermarkets run out of stuff and online deliveries aren't made on time. If there is no change in the negotiation status by January I think that I will consider stockpiling since I predict that prices will inevitably rise as a result of a shortage of stock.

You don't have to, fact is he lost his job, and in all honesty that's the only job loss fact on the thread that's not relying on heresay.

Well, if you're not paying close attention to what they're doing or what their goals are, but you believe everything will be fine, you must be trusting someone to be competent and put the national good first!

We've had incompetent governments for years (forever, really) and we have done OK, so that's what I'm basing it on.

With regards to food I believe that a lot of meat is shipped from the UK to Eastern Europe for processing and packaging before shipped to the UK. As the meat itself is British it is labelled British rather than British meat packed in Poland or wherever.

@Rageagainstthetgine
Why would food coming in be held up? We want it, right? So, why would we hold it up?? Genuine question....sorry if v stupid
Because at present the lorries coming through Dover are not subjected to Customs Clearance checks
they have security checks against smuggling but there are no specific forms to fill at the border or import taxes to pay

If the UK is not in the customs Union (as was the case before 1989) then every signle shipment (and a lorry can have 100 different consignments on board) has to be checked against a list of product codes by Customs and the import Duty and VAT paid for that exact shipment
The form is here assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/374245/c88_1-8_.pdf
its in 8 parts for the different uses

Even with the best will in the world and superb automation, the transit time for a lorry through Dover Docks will rises from about 10 minutes to around 40
times that by 5000 lorries a day
and think where to park them
and then add in a random delay
and you can see that what is currently smooth and seamless will be nothing of the sort
which will add SIGNIFICANTLY to the cost of fresh food in the shops

With regards to food I believe that a lot of meat is shipped from the UK to Eastern Europe for processing and packaging before shipped to the UK.

Wow seriously?! That seems bonkers.