Any remainers here who don't think civilisation is about to collapse?

[Bloodylovepotatoes]

Die hard remainer here. Was gutted with referendum result, but I think it'll probably be a bit crap after for a while, then it'll level out and basically be fine. Don't think society will collapse.

Apparently this is a very unpopular opinion and either I should be a defiant leaver saying all will be wonderful and we'll have our sovereignty back and our blue passports and all those nasty foreigners will be gone, or I should be boarding up all my doors and windows and preparing myself for economic collapse and societal disintegration?

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

To be fair to Dr Richard North, he wants the UK to opt for membership of EFTA, which is why he is pointing out the pitfalls of no deal.

The UK would initially adopt all the rules and regs of the EU and then gradually withdraw from these over a period of time, an idea called "Flexcit"

All versions of Brexit, even Norway-style, will leave us worse off economically, as shown in the government's own impact reports.

We will be less influential globally on our own.

Ireland faces the very real threat of a return to violence if a hard border has to be erected (and there must be a border for customs checks if we want to trade on WTO rules).

Nobody is going to be happy with any deal we get because those voting leave were promised all sorts of things that it was not in the leave campaign's power to grant. More money - no, what we pay in budgetary contributions to the EU will be lost several times over in the shrinking of our economy; freedom to do trade deals elsewhere - we could already do these, as shown by Germany, all we've done is put ourselves in a weaker position to negotiate deals; less immigration - undoubtedly there will be a reduction in EU immigration, made up by an increase in non-EU immigration.

End of civilisation? No. Gradual shrinking of the economy, fall in living standards, loss of workers'/disability rights? Yes. I'm that my children will have worse prospects than I had. What is the point of it all?

Just putting this here for those who thought I was bullshitting / out of date about Dover
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-45021133

Thanks talk1n for the link. Every day it’s my job to find an article about how shit brexit is and send it to DH. His job is to send me one about how great brexit will be. For balance.

I’m winning by a country mile at the moment

THAT'S A GREAT GAME!

That is a brilliant game! I wouldn't want to be playing your DH's side of it, though.

The trouble is that it’s all dismissed as Project Fear II & fake news.

That game sounds amazing whatthe

In response to the OP, no, I don't think civilisation will collapse.

The UK is a relatively small island with a collection of even smaller Islands (and part of another island), on the periphery of continental Europe. It's not that important in the grand scheme of things.

Civilisation will continue elsewhere .

However, within that small island, things might indeed get less civilised as it faces up to the reality of lower growth (indeed it is already experiencing that although not facing up to the consequences of that ) and relative isolation. If it ends up being the only country in the world that trades on WTO terms, things might get very difficult indeed .

I'm sure in the case of a No Deal scenario, some of the "basics", like a substitute for the Open Skies agreement to allow commercial planes to fly at all, will be agreed after an initial hiatus - but on terms that won't be favourable to UK companies.

The UK (I'm not saying "we" because I'd really rather not be part of the UK) used to be the 5th largest economy in the world by GDP. It is now, I believe, 7th - and it hasn't even left yet

Argentina used to the 7th largest economy in the world. It then made a series of bad decisions in the 1920s and ended up an economic basket case. Pride can come before a fall

I think a lot of it depends on where you are in life , if you are in your 20's and 30's then the economic downturn , pound tanking , house prices falling , well you have a another nearly 40 years to ride out the storm.

The issue for me with a no deal scenario , is that it will be like a social experiment, we will see first hand how all the systems in the UK ( I am including banking ) will cope with being stress tested simultaneously. I am sure someone clever somewhere has run an algorithm to see the outcome of such a scenario -and is now living in New Zealand-

People and organisations have to plan for the worst case scenario and hope that it doesn't happen. Ask yourselves why Heathrow have planned for a 2 month period of no revenue, that is their worse case scenario and yet people are being mocked left, right and centre for buying a couple of extra tins !

The 40 years I mentioned is really for those in their 30's and is the period before they can hopefully retire. Anyone else wondering how Brexit will effect pensions and pension age ?

News story on Sky today based on a Freedom of Information request made to local councils. They are worried about issues ranging from 'implications for social care, border controls, the availability of food and medicines and even the fear of "social unrest"'

news.sky.com/story/councils-preparing-for-social-unrest-amid-brexit-uncertainty-11455918

It gets all the more interesting given that the Chancellor has told gov depts to prepare for more budget cuts.

Brexit is going exactly as I expected it to - total shit Show.

I'm not really seeing any hysteria. I am seeing lots of people rolling their eyes and sneering at "all the hysterical remainders" but I'm not seeing them myself.

I do think our Govt has not a clue how to do Brexit and that is a worry. I do laugh at those who are blaming the eu for being difficult - we can't even present a cohesive plan for the eu to reject.

I am mostly worried about trade, competent professional needed eu citizens leaving uk in droves, and NI.

The uk parliament should have agreed a realistic plan the uk was happy with BEFORE giving notice under A50

Vote was an emotional one & Leavers were impatient, terrified they would be "betrayed". There wasn't time to plan Brexit out.

I voted Remain, but when the vote came in as Leave, I thought well we have a good couple of years to get plans in place, can't say I was optimistic but thought it would be worked out
The Government seem to have left it until the last minute to scrabble something together, like its some invoice that needs cobbling together before half 4 on a Friday, and seem more focused on squabbling amongst themselves.
Labour, you don't hear a peep out of, let alone providing a decent opposition to the shit show. The only time I even see Corbyn pop up, is when something else is revealed about Antisemitism.
My fingers are still crossed, but it's going to come down to access to Food, with the JIT process it has the potential to go very wrong, very quickly.

The uk parliament should have agreed a realistic plan the uk was happy with BEFORE giving notice under A50

Yes, this.

But when did this shower ever do anything sensible & well organised?

The thing that really pisses me off is the way that, after MONTHS AND MONTHS of not putting forward a solid wishlist for what we hope our new relationship with the EU would look like so we're now likely to end up with No Deal purely because we've run out of time to negotiate, the government is now all whining about the EU "making" us crash out.

Because we didn't bother to put any work in when we were supposed to. The "no deal" plotters in the government really think we're stupid, don't they?

Perhaps but they are also right, most people will swallow "the EU screwed us" spin.

Its similar to when we lose at footie, its the ref, they play dirty, too cold, too hot, our league is too long...... its ALWAYS someone else's fault, not that WE are crap.

The-Bloke-formerly-known-as-OH voted leave, but says he didn't vote for Brexit. I kind of get what he means, but what did he think he was going to happen? I've told him to cut out the ingénue act, it doesn't go well with the stubble and tool belt.

@LineRunner . I don't know what he means. What an idiot.

bellini I think he means he voted to express a wish to leave the EU to better fund the NHS, as per the official Leave campaign, and not for an immediate and seemingly irrevocable shit-show.

He would definitely vote Remain now.

@LineRunner - he knows there is no "vote differently now ", doesn't he? He knows that was the proverbial "it".

I think it's slowly sinking in.