Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: A Pickling Summer

983 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/07/2018 22:55

May has survived. The Turd Way has survived.

Whether this is true is another matter. The Turd Way was hijacked by the ERG who ripped it up and turned it from being a starting point to another ridiculous declaration of believing in Royal Unicorns. Rees-Smug has declared May LINO (Leader in Name Only) in tribute to BINO (Brexit in Name Only).

No one yet has grasped the consequences for NI. The backstop was absent from the White Paper except to say, it would never be used.

Johnson also in his commons resignation statement lives in a fantasy land, saying we had 2 and half years to get something in place for the Irish border. Except we don't because we don't have an agreed plan, we haven't hired the people to do it, there is no guarentee the way we are going that we will get a transition agreement agreed to afterall; its entirely dependent on us meeting certain criteria.

Even the Irish themselves haven't got to the point of admitting the possibility that there will be an Irish Border. Under WTO rules, members are legally required to secure their borders. If we are separate members to the EU we have to secure our border and they have to secure their border. In theory NI could be a separate member to the rest of the UK but this would breech the priniciple of a border in the Irish Sea.

No Deal has moved from being an option to being a distinct possibility.

The Trade Bill passed through the Commons unscathed with a dodgy pairing, the assistance of Labour rebels and the brewery tour organising skills of the LD and Labour whips despite the best efforts of Tory Rebels. It suggests the ERG have the numbers to force things but there still are no guarentees of anything.

We've had calls from Justine Greening for another referendum; despite it being obvious that the laws on referendums being ridiculously weak and just about everyone ignoring the findings of the electoral commision and the Leave Campaign's referal to the police. Even then the maximum penalties are wholly inadequate to prevent and deter electoral rigging.

We've had calls for a cross party government of National Unity. Which has been dismissed by Corbyn as an attempt at an establishment stitch up.

We've had the former Head of DexEu (the department who have refused the most FOI requests) and various ERG backbenchers (who said that publication of documents would damage the governments negotiations) ask for transparency and for draft DexEu documents to be published.

Ian Paisley Jr appears likely to be suspended from sitting in the HoC from 4th September for a month for breeching parliamentary standards, losing May one vital vote. She has however been bolstered by the resignation of John Woodcock from the Labour Party pledging his ongoing support of Brexit (he's been a Labour Rebel in the past). Plus there is the O'Mara Factor whereby the whole country could be at the mercy of whether Jared can be fucked to turn up to work at all or not.

There are growing signs out there for increasing support for EEA though despite it all.

The Trade Bill now goes to the Lords, where there is suggestion they might throw it out, after the Speaker declared they had the power to do so as it was a Supply Bill rather than a Money Bill thanks to the Amendments the ERG supplied.

All the while jobs are lost and companies are abandoning the UK and NI has had the most violence in years, but no one cares because Brexit means Brexit and its all worth it.

And finally, when being questioned by the Liason Select Committee, May said that 70 Technical Notices for Households and Businesses in the Event of No Deal would be published in August and September.

The country is in a total pickle.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 11:16

Manchester University students paint over Rudyard Kipling mural

And yet how many of our forebears would have known anything about India, if it weren't for him Hmm.

BakewellFarts · 19/07/2018 11:20

Buenos dias Wine
Any ideas what will happen with Gibraltar? It barely gets a mention and voted overwhelmingly Remain.

Plonkysaurus · 19/07/2018 11:32

DGR a couple of months back a middle aged man told me, in all seriousness, that the British invented curry.

What our forebears really knew about India could fit on a fag packet.

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 11:34

AHA here we have Boris Johnson's plan!

He intends to squat in the EU like he is at the Foreign Secretary's official residence.

pjm1kbw @pjm1kbw
Can anyone explain why @BorisJohnson is still living in the Foreign Secretary’s official residence and being chauffeured about at our expense having flounced out a week ago?

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 19/07/2018 11:35

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 19/07/2018 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 11:36

What our forebears really knew about India could fit on a fag packet.

My DGF (DMs Dad) was British, but born in Darjeeling, as his DF worked on the Indian railways. He spoke Hindi before English, and was delighted when people started coming to the UK from India, as he could get a decent curry. All of his brothers served (he was in the Home Guard as he had an injury) and it's safe to say they'd all be disgusted by the current shower of shit trying to cloak themselves in others sacrifices.

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 11:37

Any ideas what will happen with Gibraltar?

Its going to be sold off.

Prime real estate.

(I'm only half joking)

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 11:39

Any ideas what will happen with Gibraltar?

Sold down the river.

keyboardkate · 19/07/2018 11:44

Motion of no confidence served just now. No details, I just a snatch of it I think it was Philip Davies on the 1922 put it forward. To be confirmed.

Well that's May sorted for another year.....

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 11:45

Esther Webber @estwebber
Ian Paisley gives an unreserved apology to the House but says he "regrets" its sanctions
Ian Paisley's voice wavers as he says "it is to my constituents I give my profoundest apologies" and believes it's possible for MPs to give sincere apologies and move on
Hmm. I'm hearing the motion on sanctions against Ian Paisley has been scheduled for Tuesday, day before recess, when many will have gone back to their constituencies
This has just been confirmed by Andrea Leadsom - MPs will be asked to approve sanctions against Ian Paisley on Tues
Conservative Peter Bone says the Commons runs on "tradition and trust" and he's "very concerned" pairing was broken

RTB: PETER BONE!!!!

Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom repeats that broken pairing was "an error"
SNP's Pete Wishart raises @samcoatestimes story that Tory MPs were asked to break the whip and asks for an inquiry. Andrea Leadsom doesn't reply to this point directly
Third question on broken pairing. Labour's Wes Streeting asks if House has been misled on whether it was accidental Andrea Leadsom says his comments are "absolutely abhorrent" and it's of "deep regret to me that the breaking of pair happened in error"
Lib Dem chief whip Alistair Carmichael says despite talks with Julian Smith on broken pairing "I still do not understand how it came to pass" and calls for him to explain to the Commons
Andrea Leadsom says she was "absolutely assured it was an administrative error" and Brandon Lewis did not know he was paired

The government under fire from ERG Con, SNP, Labour and LDs united in anger and concern...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 11:56

Robert Peston @ peston
I was told by well-placed source that a Tory backbencher was texted by chief whip with instructions to break pair on Tuesday night. “That is an order not a request” was how text was retold to me. In event shrewd MP consulted pairing whip and honoured pair. But...

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Times

Pairing breach: It wasn’t just Brandon Lewis, we reveal. It didn’t work though

Whip ‘told MPs to defy pairing deals’

OP posts:
Melassa · 19/07/2018 12:01

Just placemarking. I’ve been taking a break from the Brexit shots how for a while to preserve my sanity and it appears to have gone spectacularly tits up since I last looked.

Melassa · 19/07/2018 12:01

That was supposed to say shitshow

Effing autocorrect.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/07/2018 12:02

"He added: “Politics is all about trust and once it is lost it is impossible to win back."

ha bloody ha.

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 12:05

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Lib Dem chief whip calls for Julian Smith to make a statement. Highly unusual, underlines seriousness this is being treated in Parliament

(The LD whip also keen to redeem himself)

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
This story is also not going to go away - and a mark of how much suspicion there is on all sides of Parliament right now

OP posts:
CaptainBrickbeard · 19/07/2018 12:12

Labour are drawing up plans for a snap election: mass housebuolding, industry nationalisation, abolishing zero hours contracts - but still not saying what they will do about Brexit! Surely any GE now would hinge on Brexit vision and planning?

lonelyplanetmum · 19/07/2018 12:16

Politics is all about trust... said the MP who:

-received more than £10,000 in benefits from the gambling industry which he did not fully declare in the register of members' interests

  • is known for opposing political correctness
  • is known for opposing feminism
-opposed schools providing first-aid training to children -objected to banning smoking in cars with children
  • wants to scrap the Human Rights Act for foreign nationals and chuck them out of the country
  • expressed admiration for Donald Trump
- wanted to see "an increase in the prison population" -voted against same-sex marriage -supported disabled people, and others working for less than the minimum wage -opposed exempting parking charges for hospital carers -pestered the Equality and Human Rights Commission Chair, Trevor Phillips about race and sex discrimination obsessing about "Why it is so offensive to black up your face, as I have never understood this" -proclaimed that black people are "more likely to be murderers

Not that I'm out to defend TM but I have no confidence in the right honourable member for Shipley.

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 12:21

John Redwood @johnredwood
There is a lot of bad & misleading language used about Brexit. Apparently Mr Barnier is about to embark on his own version of Project Fear, claiming the so called “No Deal” option will be difficult.

The UK government will make sure all is ready to depart without a Withdrawal Agreement if necessary. Why would the UK want to sign such a one sided Withdrawal Agreement anyway? What is Mr Barnier offering to make it worth our while?

“Crash out” are the words often used by Remain to describe leaving without paying the EU £39bn for the privilege of leaving. As we do not owe them any money, most people would call that just leaving, not crashing out. We will not crash, and will have lots more cash.

“Fall off the cliff edge” is another fatuous phrase they use. There is no cliff edge. Planes will fly & lorries will move thru ports the day after we leave just as they did the day before. We'll carry on trading, travelling, investing in EU countries as we do in non EU countries.

The EU warns of a “disorderly Brexit” if we leave w/o an Agreement. That means we leave w/o paying which annoys them but is good for us. They'll find that people, companies & global rules will work just fine. There's nothing disorderly abt the way EU states trade w/non EU states.

Marcus Leroux @marcusleroux
Thought experiment: the day after a no-deal Brexit. You run an airline. A $100m aircraft is on the runway with 200 people. The lawyers say it can't enter EU airspace or land. The insurers say you're on your own. But the MP for Woking reckons you'll be ok.

This would be funny but the no-deal denialism extends to people who were in the cabinet a few days ago.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 12:24

order-order.com/2018/07/19/broken-pairs-numbers-full/
Those Broken Pairs Numbers in Full

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
This is backfiring. By spinning these numbers to Guido, CCHQ are deepening the suspicion they did it.

A compelling argument for formalising the pairing system to one that is done electronically. I mean if we can do an electronic system for the NI border, why can't we do one for monitoring MPs?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/07/2018 12:30

Govt confirmed in the HoC that it is stockpiling medicines and non-perishable foods

Buteo · 19/07/2018 12:40

Can I take up the question on the WTO and borders? From the OP:

Under WTO rules, members are legally required to secure their borders

Peter Ungphakorn tweeted about this:

Peter Ungphakorn @coppertainPU

We are hearing claims, either that WTO rules require countries to control their borders, or that the UK can drop border controls and wait to see what Ireland does. One is partly false, the other totally.

He then linked to his blog for answers:

First, a fact:

There is no rule in the WTO requiring its member governments to secure their borders.

After Brexit, the UK could drop all border controls for traded goods and services and it would be perfectly within its WTO rights.

He goes on to say:

The WTO does not tell countries what to do other than to keep their promises (abide by the WTO agreements and their WTO commitments).

Since there is no WTO rule requiring governments to secure their borders, failing to do so would not break any specific agreement.

Where the UK might run into trouble is under the WTO’s non-discrimination rules, particularly “most-favoured-nation” treatment (MFN), which means treating one’s trading partners equally.

In other words, while no WTO rule actually says the UK will have to set up border checks, the non-discrimination rule may force it to.

tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2018/07/18/does-the-wto-require-countries-to-control-their-borders/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2018 12:48

Interesting. It was Chris Leslie MP who said about the borders. It was repeated by another MP (I think CON - possibly Sandbach? or Vicky Ford - I forget.

On the subject of the WTO

Julian Braithwaite @JulianUNWTO
Today I sent our UK goods schedule to the WTO secretariat on behalf of @LiamFox. This will be circulated shortly to all WTO members for certification. This sticks to the plan set out by the UK Government after the referendum for establishing the UK’s independent position @WTO.

Dmitry Grozoubinski @DmitryOpines
1/ Exciting! For those curious what this means:
A WTO Goods schedule lists maximum tariffs a country agrees it can charge.
A schedule is 'certified' by the @wto Director General only if there are no objections.
Note: A country CAN operate with an uncertified schedule.

2/ Will WTO Members agree to let this schedule be certified? They may. By doing so however, they would be accepting everything in the schedule as a fair reflection of the UK's obligations post-Brexit. More likely they'll at the least put certification on hold for a while.

3/ What will having an uncertified schedule mean in practice? Not the end of the world. Two things. 1) An uncertified schedule makes it more likely someone is at least open to a WTO dispute against the UK where its new commitments fall short of the EU's overall commitments.

4/ 2) An uncertified schedule also makes negotiating bilateral or plurilateral free trade agreements a little bit more complicated because there is ambiguity on where to start. A WTO Members schedule is often the 'baseline' against which negotiating outcomes are compared.

Every reason to object to protect your own market against the UK and make life more difficult for us.

OP posts:
Buteo · 19/07/2018 13:09

Peter Lilley on Any Questions a couple of weeks back also stated that there was no requirement under WTO terms for an Irish border, citing that as he had been part of the team drawing up the WTO rules then he should know.

Given that Lilley’s wild Brexiteer claims are often proved wrong, it does however seem that he is right about this.