If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

@Rosstac - I don't have a Spanish nanny or a Polish cleaner or whatever. And we are stereotyping Leave voters ...

And I hope none of you are stockpiling food

That's when we'll see who the True BeLeavers are. The ones who really aren't setting aside extra supplies IRL despite their bluster on here.

And I think there are precious few True BeLeavers - if they really believed, they wouldn't be on an internet talkboard, 2 years after the referendum and with only months to go before their Glorious Day dawns, still gloating that their most triumphant victory is that "Remoaners are upset".

I think that that is all they have now.

@beguilingeyes a few threads on here about doing it sensibly.
In short, we have a Just In Time supply system and supermarkets only have a 3 day supply - they rely on Just In Time. If this system takes a hit in any way, weather or whatever, our shops are vulnerable .
Look at getting 3 days worth of shelf stable food in that you actually eat. Stash it. Have stuff in the freezer too but not instead of.
If you find you don't need the 3 day supply after all, donate it to a food bank. Or not. Whatever.
Just don't start whining about something you could have avoided if we get a hiccup.

bellinisurge You might not have, but my client does, it’s not a stereotype,

To be fair , I don't think the people who voted leave lied or cheated, I think those orchestrating the campaign for leave did.

Rosstac so you know one relatively wealthy person ( I say relatively because I doubt they are in Rees moggs £100,000,000 league ) and as a result of that relationship you have deduced that all remain voters have an equivalent lifestyle ?

@Rosstac I don't know anyone with that lifestyle. I would say I know about 50% Leave/ 50% Remain voters. Which is kind of how it went.

frumpety No, but I bet the more affluent you are the more your vote for the status quo,

in the guardian no less
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/01/brexit-eu-accused-of-making-false-aid-funding-claims
oh - that wonderful sunny uplands of the eu
The uk gives more than its fair share in aid

@Rosstac - not affluent. Neither are any Remain or Leave voters I know. You are falling back on stereotypes. Presumably out of desperation.

@frumpety - I voted on my own experience of MEPs and the EU not on anything promised or claimed about the NHS or whatever by Westminster MPs. I worked for the NHS and have my own views on how that should go.
This is where the remainers are losing the argument imv, we all disbelieve roughly half of what is said by MPs anyway if that is how you are inclined (depending on whether you are left or right) but I make up my own mind on things. For example on how me and mine are managing in life and my own experiences.

Oddly the leave voters I know are mostly in the enviable position of being retired on good pensions and are mortgage free or are like your client and relatively wealthy. The leave voters I know who have changed their minds are at the opposite end of the financial spectrum.

@GeorgeIII - we lost the argument. Leave won. There is no argument. Just an unfolding shit show.

So George that was then and this is now , what sort of Brexit did you vote for ?

Ooops posted too soon

Does the current white paper reflect what you imagined Brexit to be ? do you accept that the white paper proposals will be watered down further if there is to be any hope of any deal ?

The thing that makes me so angry is that if Brexit goes as tits up as it looks to right now I doubt any of them will apologise or change their stance at all.

Just reading a book about how the German people knew the terms of the treaty of Versailles but because there was a 20 month gap between agreement and enforcement of terms most Germans had convinced themselves that it wouldn’t be so bad and that they hadn’t done anything wrong in the first place really. So when hyper inflation, poverty, profiteering and misery hit on enforcement of the (granted too harsh) terms the populace found other people to blame- the French and the Jews.

The parallels here are spooky. Except this time we did it to ourselves. We were warned that leaving the EU would mean economic suicide. We were warned that it would affect trade and food prices. But the populace hasn’t actually experienced it yet. So when it does come they’ll be looking for someone to blame.

Enter the national socialists.

I’m looking at you Bannon.

Dreary interesting article, wonder if the report mentioned is available to view

The EU and the UK pledged in a joint report agreed in December to act cooperatively after Brexit in areas where the British government has made a substantial financial commitment in the past.

There is a large number of people ( as shown by the vote) who thinks the government is not listening to them.

While that is undoubtedly true and IMO led to many people voting Leave, what evidence do you have that the Government is going to start listening to them now? Take for example the railways - upgrading the transpennine route, which sorely needs it, put on hold, but HS2 still goes ahead. Who is being listened to? Wealthy Tory voters.

Exactly. And climate change - the Swansea project is cancelled. But we get fracking.

but I bet the more affluent you are the more your vote for the status quo

Oh rosstac, the stats DONT show that I’m afraid, and certainly the Brexit campaign was led by millionaires and the most ardent brexiteers on mn all admit to being ‘comfortable’.

Even if it were the case though, how does that say that Brexit was a good thing anyway?

I guessed Brexit might happen- I was on mn then- that’s probably because in the area I live in People were leaning that way...
They may be nice fun or clever people (or not) but all had a shocking understanding of politics.
I heard: Brexit because of Muslims- several times
Brexit because we hate David Cameron several times
Brexit because it will be fine. (?)
Brexit because she told me.
I could/do go on.
Brexit because America is better.

Funnily enough these people are super-quiet on the subject now.

George, what is your own experience of MEPs and the EU please and why did this experience persuade you to vote to leave? I know this is ancient history now but you did bring it up.

Leavers I happen to know (or know of) are on average much much better off than remainers. It includes at least one millionaire (not a friend of mine I might add, but someone very high up at one of my former employers). They're the kind of ruthless people who don't give a fig about others. Just saying.

Can I also remind leavers that the austerity that has made so many suffer stems from the 2008 financial crisis. And that came from where? The US and an unregulated mortgage market that allowed unscrupulous brokers to flood financial markets with bad product. They contaminated the whole system. Do you REALLY want deregulation? Because you'll see more of that crap, and it'll be ordinary people paying the price again.
Billionaire leavers want unfettered speculation but they sell that as 'patriotism'.

I am an ardent remainer, but can just about understand why some people voted leave before.

In the event of another referendum however, I think anyone who voted leave would be grossly irresponsible, knowing what we know now.

If we’re talking anecdotally, I know very few leavers and all of them are comfortably/well off, brash, arrogant, ruthless sorts who ride roughshod over others; often with enormous chips on their shoulders. They feel taken advantage of by the EU, suspicious of their motives, presumably because their own motives are often based in self-interest. They don’t like outsiders of any description and are loud, defensive, and rude. I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

But that’s just my experience.