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Brexit
Original poster

Custom Union

299 replies

user1486062886 · 10/05/2018 13:50

If as it looks likely the U.K. will be in some form of custom Union, what should us leave voters do?

Would it be better to stay as we are ?
Go on a protest march ( hasn’t helped remain )
Make the conservatives suffer at the next GE,
Or has anyone else got any suggestions ( no not you remainers, with just get on with it was a waste of time anyway etc etc)

OP posts:
Peregrina · 11/05/2018 12:36

DC also said that he would stay on as PM to implement the result. That promise didn't last 24 hours after the result being declared. He also said he'd stay on in Parliament, he didn't take long to throw in the towel there either. If he couldn't be bothered to keep his word, why does anyone else feel bound by it?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/05/2018 12:36

David Cameron warned of the dangers of Brexit. But now he’s an establishment figure who was just walked off into the sunset.

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 12:36

Peregrina I don’t know asked them, how much clearer can a answer be , as asked do you want to leave or remain, one word Answear surly is very clear, there wasn’t and how do you expect it done or did I miss the second sheet ?

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reddressblueshoes · 11/05/2018 12:39

I'm surprised how little blame the DUP have got in all this.

The reason this is all impossible is not the decision to sign up to the EU in the 70s but the decision to sign up to the Good Friday Agreement in the 90s. Which doesn't mean the GFA is a problem, it is a transformative document and protecting it is critical, but it shows that at that time nobody ever foresaw this moment. And unfortunately, by bending over to the DUP, that's why you get stuck in this situation.

I have heard people taking about a unique situation for NI where they get a Special status which would involve a degree of checking at the Irish Sea. This already happens, for the most part. If the DUP weren't so intransigent, there are options that would minimise disruption and enable a compromise position. However, despite people in NI already having a unique position in the U.K. regarding their citizenship, acknowledging the reality that they are on an island with a land connection to the EU that can't have a physical border is a step too far for the DUP.

They have played a blinder, but if you're wondering where to direct your ire, it's at the conservatives for listening to them. I've read comments on Telegraph articles with Leavers praising the DUP for their 'hardline' stance not realising they are the ones backing everyone into a customs union. Also agree with the comment that the original 'hard lines' laid down by government shot them in the foot.

The government have handled this almost comically badly: unfortunately if your life is going to be directly negatively effected its hard to see the funny side.

twofingerstoEverything · 11/05/2018 12:40

user - why don't you write to your MP about this? Write to Theresa May, too, while you're at it. Express your concerns about what is happening and see whether you get anything concrete back, or whether you get a load of old rhetoric about 'making a success... the people have spoken... blah blah blah.'
Have a march demanding a proper Brexit where we leave the customs union, and see how many people are willing to come on it. You could invite the fellow leavers on this thread to join you. All these movements start small. Start a petition. Do something positive or stop complaining and accept that you're going to get a fudge. You weren't bothered about the detail before the vote - you just wanted to leave - so why bother about the detail afterwards? Just get what you're given and be grateful that you got what you voted for.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/05/2018 12:40

User, do you not think asking such a simple question to a potentially complex problem should not have been put to a referendum? As a pp said we live in a representative democracy, competent politicians should be taking decisions on our behalf for the betterment of the country

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 12:42

Peregrina No I actually started it to gage opinion on what over leavers fault about staying in the Custom union, but as usual it’s turn into its all your fault etc etc instead of trying to have a nice debate

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jugglingsatsumas · 11/05/2018 12:44

DC said many times on tv that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the SM & CU
And a lot of Leave campaigners said the opposite!

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 12:46

GhostofFrankGrimes No I don’t think it should have been put to a public vote, but there again I think as been shown by the House of Lords, people have their own agenda for wanting to stay in the EU

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Talkstotrees · 11/05/2018 12:47

Sorry I’m so late to the party. user, why don’t you want a(/the) customs union?

There is no point in dwelling in the past. Yes, DC was a total fuckwit for implementing a poorly thought out referendum. Yes, the Remain campaign was hopeless (although I disagree re the lack of EU positives - they were there in abundance, just drowned out by the right wing media). Yes, TM should not have triggered Art 50 without a plan. Yes, plenty of folk are to blame (including some voters, probably). But, we are where we are and solutions need to be found - even if they are temporary solutions.

It’s a shocking and embarrassing mess.

Peregrina · 11/05/2018 12:50

did I miss the second sheet ?

I wondered the same myself, when Theresa May declared what we had voted for. After all, Farage was spouting about how wonderfully well Norway was doing so we have to assume he was happy with the EEA option. How many more people supported that view?

If you started this thread then why aren't Leavers coming on to tell us what they are doing? What letters have they written to their MP? Have they tried to attend an MP's surgery to press home their point? Have they been on a Leave demo? The last one had about 10 men and a dog attend as far as I remember.

Talkstotrees · 11/05/2018 12:51

user, what do you mean by your comment re the House of Lords and agendas?

Also; are you related to Mummmy? Or perhaps you went to the same school Hmm

Heyduggeesflipflop · 11/05/2018 12:55

Oh good - another Brexit thread dominated by the usual zealots... just what mumsnet needs.

Can’t we just keep you tedious remainers shut off in your own thread somewhere?

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 13:03

Talkstotrees I’ve have been saying as a leaver I would rather we stay as we are, rather than being in the CU, it makes little sense, I was suggesting that a lot of the lords have nice EU pension and are looking after their bosses

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LaurieMarlow · 11/05/2018 13:03

So when TM comes back and says we are staying in the CU and will have FoM, you will say, 'Fine by me'.

Fundamentally leavers will have no choice but to accept that.

Like it or not, none of the details were on the ballot paper. Therefore no one has any obligation to deliver them. If we end up leaving, but staying in a customs union with FOM, you have no grounds to say you didn't vote for that, because you did. We would still be leaving.

House building is a good analogy. If you hire a builder to build you a house, if you have any sense you'll outline the exact specification of what you want (size, dimensions, location, etc) and sign a contract that includes those terms.

But if you sign a contract that says nothing more than 'x will build a house' and x then builds a dolls house in timbuctoo, then you've no grounds to complain as x has delivered what you agreed.

LaurieMarlow · 11/05/2018 13:05

DC said many times on tv that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the SM & CU

Doesn't matter what he said, it wasn't on the ballot paper.

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 13:07

Peregrina Just like the remain marches, it doesn’t achieve anything apart from making yourself feel good and it’s a day out, I wouldn’t talk about 10 men and his dog, I’ve seen some of the numbers on the great EU demo

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Peregrina · 11/05/2018 13:08

Nor did DC stay to deliver, so what he said is irrelevant.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/05/2018 13:12

Marching and protesting is part of our democracy. User, as a patriotic leaver I’m sure you’d appreciate that.

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 13:12

LaurieMarlowNo I would not, if that is the only option I would rather stay as we are, but I would just get on with my live and wait till it builds up again, the rise of UKIP or something similar as unfortunately unless the government or the EU do something EU wide about uncontrolled immigration it will just keep rising not here but across all Europe,

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jugglingsatsumas · 11/05/2018 13:14

I'm not sure what you mean by EU pensions. How would EU pensions be affected? A lot of very rich Brexiteers would benefit from leaving. People always have a reason for voting the way they do and it's ingenuous not to ask why.

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 13:14

GhostofFrankGrimes No nothing against marching, just doesn’t feel it achieves much, unless it is millions of people

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jugglingsatsumas · 11/05/2018 13:16

What uncontrolled immigration?

Original poster
user1486062886 · 11/05/2018 13:16

jugglingsatsumasThe EU pensions wouldn’t be affected as we would have to carry on paying them, but I sure they don’t want to be seen voting against the EU

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LaurieMarlow · 11/05/2018 13:19

If the DUP weren't so intransigent, there are options that would minimise disruption and enable a compromise position

True, but the only reason the DUP have any power is because of the arrogance, stupidity and short termism of the Tory government. They chose to get into bed with the DUP and it's not as if the DUP Jane behaved unpredictably. They were always going to take this line.

If they weren't holding the government up they could be told to lump the sea border.