Custom Union

[user1486062886]

If as it looks likely the U.K. will be in some form of custom Union, what should us leave voters do?

Would it be better to stay as we are ?
Go on a protest march ( hasn’t helped remain )
Make the conservatives suffer at the next GE,
Or has anyone else got any suggestions ( no not you remainers, with just get on with it was a waste of time anyway etc etc)

twofingerstoEverything You need anger management, not every conversation and meeting is recorded, state secrets and such would not be available for 30 years, your friends several votes would’ve made all the difference, how can you tell which way the people who couldn’t vote were going to vote ? One minute the public shouldn’t have the vote, the next minute, let’s give the kids a vote because they are sure to have done all the necessary research to make a valid opinion, that us leavers did do, is that straws you are trying to clutch ?

bearbehind I do take ownership of my vote and I have my own personal and experience reasons for voting, I just can’t and will not accept that I should know more than the government and the civil service, or people in position of power and authority who gave us the vote and have to act on the vote, if it is my fault let me have a job at the negotiations and I’ll try to help,

Ok, what do you think can be done differently?

How can the NI border issue be resolved?

If leavers don't want a customs union and/or effectively BINO, then now's the time to do some proper thinking.

The way I see it, there are 2 big questions to be addressed.

What's the solution to the NI border issue?
How can the economic impact of a harder brexit be managed/mitigated?

If leavers (including those in government and ordinary punters) start engaging with these questions and coming up with workable solutions, then they deserve to be taken seriously.

If not (and this is the way the wind is blowing), they should get used to the idea of staying in a customs union, because power needs to go hand in hand with responsibility. If leavers aren't prepared to solve these problems, lord knows no one else is.

bearbehind How many times do I have to say it is not my job, do you get a tradesman in to do work and expect them to ask you how to do it, that’s their job, there are people in the government and civil service who would have worked on the GFA surly they would know more than me and would have raised this before giving the public the vote, why have an agreement without any get out clauses?

How many times do I have to say it is not my job, do you get a tradesman in to do work and expect them to ask you how to do it, that’s their job, there are people in the government and civil service who would have worked on the GFA surly they would know more than me and would have raised this before giving the public the vote, why have an agreement without any get out clauses?

You are right that the border issue should have been raised and sorted prior to the referendum.

It wasn't. So if you voted leave with a view to leaving the customs union, then you voted for something that was not necessarily possible at the time and is no more possible now as the government have presented no workable solutions.

So you'll have to accept staying in the customs union in the absence of any answers (which are not forthcoming from the government).

Prior to the referendum hardly anyone in government supported leaving. Leave was largely championed by people who are not part of Whitehall mechanisms like banks and Farage.

Some people voted leave to give Cameron and Osborne a “bloody nose”. Did they really think those two would hang around if they lost? It created a political vacuum were hardly anyone wanted to pick up the poisoned chalice

LaurieMarlow Yes it is up to the government to find a solution, how apart from another vote are they going to get the public (leavers ) to have a dialogue, but come on you are not going to trust the public are you, I’ll say again if there can be no satisfactory answer then TM has got to be honest with the British public, fall on her sword and call a GE in which they are not allowed to stand for gross misleading of the public

user, you do like your analogies don't you?

Using the tradesman analogy, yes you ask an expert to actually do the job but you know pretty much if it's possible to do in the first place.

E.g., you wouldn't entertain asking someone to build an extension on a 10th story flat would you?

There was never any indication of how Leaving would work in practice simply because no one knew how it would work and still no one can come up with a viable solution.

You can blame who ever rise you like but at least be decent enough to admit your share of the blame too.

LaurieMarlow It may surprise you but I would rather be in as we were than just being in the CU, there is no point to that,
That was why I was trying to find out what other leavers want or prefer

User is right - and I say that as a Remainer. She was asked if she wanted to Remain or Leave and she opted to Leave. It’s not her fault if Leave turns out to be undeliverable. Or her responsibility if Leaving turns out to be disastrous. The Conservative government who offered the two options to the public shouldn’t have done it unless they were equally prepared to implement either outcome.

bearbehind If voting leave I have to take blame( for what I don’t know) then I will, you would be surprised at the things our building company has been asked to do, As you keep implying not everybody is clever in every aspect of live.

twofingerstoEverything You need anger management,
Righty-ho

And I don't think it's me that's clutching at straws. I'm not the gullible idiot who put my trust in there being a plan when there very clearly wasn't. Furthermore, I looked at our MPs and asked myself which one of them (or, ideally, group of them) has the intelligence and vision to manage a departure from the EU in a measured way? Who are the people advocating our departure and supporting this? Do I trust them? I listened to the likes of Priti Patel and Boris Johnson making all kinds of promises on Radio 4 and questioned everything I heard. FWIW I thought George Osborne came out with some right old shit, too.

(I also asked myself whether I wanted to be counted alongside groups like Britain First and other nationalist groups, who were vociferous in support of leave, but that's another story.)

Leave voters are not to blame. ( blame for what anyway? we’re still in negotiations )

We were offered an in / out vote.

Leave won.

End of.

That’s where our ‘responsibilities’ ended.

Don’t offer us something you can’t deliver.

And any remainer who thinks leavers should be sorting this out & coming up with answers & solutions needs psychiatric help.

We were merely voters - who voted.
Same as you.

bearbehind But then we would not give the customer the option of a extension on the flat and when she accepts asked how do we do it, if it wasn’t achievable we would not give the option,

do you get a tradesman in to do work and expect them to ask you how to do it, that’s their job,

This is a poor analogy. If you get a tradesman in to do some work, say build an extension, do you just say, "you're a builder, get on with it, and I don't know or care what you build or which part of the house you extend", or what sort of budget if any you have. You draw up plans and cost them. Now, with a good tradesperson, it's a two way process and they can often make a suggestion as to how something might be done better or differently. The overall responsibility is still yours - if you don't give clear instructions it's no use complaining that what was built wasn't what you wanted.

Leavers are in this situation - it's up to them to say what it is they would like to be delivered and as a PP has said, somethings are impossible. This is the impasse we are now in - nearly two years after the Referendum, the Govt, like a rogue tradesman, don't know what is possible and are arguing among themselves.

twofingerstoEverything The trouble was the remain party was all about doom and gloom nothing on the benefits etc, it was like they couldn’t find any, GO being the worst I agree I was expecting a plague of locusts to be thrown in as well

User, everything remain said was denounced as project fear. Concerns about NI brushed aside, no suggestion uk would be leaving the single market. You should be focusing your anger on the people who promised you so much and have delivered nothing.

Peregrina A builder would be given instructions before starting, but would not offer you something that was not achievable and then ask you how to do it as you remainers seem to be suggesting
We did give clear instructions, on being asked leave or remain, we said leave can that not be any clearer ?

Leave won. End of.

So when TM comes back and says we are staying in the CU and will have FoM, you will say, 'Fine by me'.

"Yeah, right", as they say.

Some posters are being completely unreasonable. We have a Parliamentary democracy. Every few years we send representatives to Parliament to make these decisions for us so that we can ignore all this detail and get on with our lives. If we’re not happy about the decisions they made, we vote for someone else next time. You are not personally responsible for the decisions your MP made. Nor can you be expected to cast your vote according to what might happen in the future.

If you’re offered a choice and express a preference, you’re entitled to expect that preference to be delivered. It’s a dereliction of responsibility on behalf of the government if they offered a choice that can’t be delivered.

FWIW - that’s why i’m in favour of a vote on the terms.

user, you and many other leavers are just rewriting history now.

Leavers were told about the potential problem, you weren't offered any solutions no and you still thought you knew better.

we said leave can that not be any clearer ?

So what then are TM and Co discussing? If it was clear it should all have been done and dusted by now.

GhostofFrankGrimes DC said many times on tv that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the SM & CU, I am not angry, if we don’t leave I know who is to blame

If it is so clear User, why did you start this thread? There is nothing for you to do!