Custom Union

[user1486062886]

If as it looks likely the U.K. will be in some form of custom Union, what should us leave voters do?

Would it be better to stay as we are ?
Go on a protest march ( hasn’t helped remain )
Make the conservatives suffer at the next GE,
Or has anyone else got any suggestions ( no not you remainers, with just get on with it was a waste of time anyway etc etc)

It doesn't limit numbers that come and get a job, puts pressure on services on housing etc, because at the start of the year we have no idea of what the population is going to be at the end of the year, how do you plan your for services?

You have woefully misunderstood the point. Again.

Ask them to leave to leave after 3 months, come on we don't know their here or where they are, ive just finished that temp job and starting one soon, honestly who pays for all this tracking them down and deporting them ? Because they will honestly say i have to leave ive been her 3 months, weve got to go home.
user why don't you attempt to explain how other EU countries have managed to do this, while the UK has signally failed?
It doesn't limit numbers that come and get a job, puts pressure on services on housing etc, because at the start of the year we have no idea of what the population is going to be at the end of the year, how do you plan your for services ?
Do you see how this might be connected to the above, ie. the UK's failure to manage immigration?

You can't stop people living entirely in the cash economy but the Windrush scandal shows that it is now quite hard for honest people whose situation is not 'regular' to live in the UK.

And if EU citizens are self supporting, what is the problem? There are hundreds of thousands of British citizens living in the EU but not working - theoretically these people are self-supporting too, in practice this is far from the case for many.

Do you honestly believe they wouldn’t and our say v 27 would be enough?
This attitude from Leavers that it is always everyone against us is so bizarre and also so wrong. Why would everyone else in the EU decide to vote against us? It doesn't work like that.

we don't know their here or where they are

I live and work in Italy. I have a permit to stay here even as an EU citizen. I am registered with my local council. Similar systems are in place in other EU countries I have lived in and visited. If the UK doesn't make a note of who is coming in and out of the country, why is this the EU's fault?

In any case, what we DO know for sure is that they contribute more to the country than they take out in benefits and that they play a vital role in the NHS. This has been proved again and again. I think one of the biggest scandals of the referendum is that people who voted Leave to help the NHS have, in fact, dealt it a huge blow and damaged it considerably.

Once again user has proven her knowledge comes entirely from the Daily Mail and gossip.

I didn’t say it was everyone against us but
I am confused by the pro EU peoples views on our position within the EU, we are either being told that the U.K. is but a small fish in a big pond and we are not as powerful as we think we are or alternatively, we don’t need to worry about the U.K. being in the EU as we can have a veto on this that and the other therefore it won’t come to pass - which is it?

What are peoples views on the UKs future in the EU when, I would imagine, most things will be decided by QMV?

I am confused by the pro EU peoples views on our position within the EU, we are either being told that the U.K. is but a small fish in a big pond and we are not as powerful as we think we are or alternatively, we don’t need to worry about the U.K. being in the EU as we can have a veto on this that and the other therefore it won’t come to pass - which is it?

Eh?

Outside the EU we are a little fish in a big pond.

Inside the EU we were one of the most influential countries within the worlds largest trading bloc.

And even the smallest EU countries have the right of veto, it's part of the democratic process within the EU.

What's so difficult to understand about that.

time4chocolate - but your questions still come from the standpoint of imagining that everyone is against the UK! I am not sure why you think that the UK is going to want something fundamentally different to all the other members and everyone is going to gang up on us. What do you think it is we will want that nobody else will???

What are peoples views on the UKs future in the EU when, I would imagine, most things will be decided by QMV?

Why do you "imagine" that? This is a factual question to which the only possible answers are yes/no/don't know. It doesn't require any imagination whatsoever.

About 80% of EU legislation is passed using QMV (a much higher bar than the simple majority required in the UK parliament).

Unanimity is required for:

•	common foreign and security policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. appointment of a special representative)
•	citizenship (the granting of new rights to EU citizens)
•	EU membership
•	harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation
•	EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)
•	certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.)
•	harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.

Source: European council website (you could have found this in less than 30 seconds on google; no imagination and not much in the way of internet search skills required).

What we should have is a second referendum, on the deal offered. The only question is whether it should be 'deal or no deal', or 'deal or remain'.

I think most people who voted Leave wanted to see restrictions on migration, and probably had no view on the customs union at all.

Hard brexit is the alternative. The CU is not inevitable

Thanks for the snarky response Mistigri - very clever 👏👏

bear And even the smallest EU countries have the right of veto, it's part of the democratic process within the EU

mistigri Unanimity is required for:
•common foreign and security policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. appointment of a special representative)
•citizenship (the granting of new rights to EU citizens)
•EU membership
•harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation
•EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)
certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.) •harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.

But the EU can use the Passarelle Clause?

tme what on earth are you talking about? You keep on making points which you think are conflicting, when they are actually 2 sides of the same coin.

If you say so Bear

I do say so because you've done it twice today:-

First the point about the UK's size and influence

Second about vetos and unanimity.

I simply don't understand what points you are trying to prove.

Do you actually think your points are conflicting?

But the EU can use the Passarelle Clause?

The use of the passerelle clause must also be agreed unanimously. I don't really understand what you are getting at. There is already a much greater degree of consensus in EU decision-making than is typical in national legislatures, and in some key areas there is a requirement for unanimity.

Eh?
time what on earth are you talking about?

Bear

time, that is about right!

As misti says, the passarelle clause also requires unanimity.

What point are you trying to make with both this and the one about the UK's relative size / influence?

First the point about the UK's size and influence

I was highlighting that I have seen posted and had told to me many times that ‘we don’t have the power in the EU that we like to think we have, and that we are just one small country out of 27’ or the other ‘we are one of the most powerful countries in the EU’ depending on what the discussion is about - we can’t be both obviously.

Vetos and Unanimity
Mistigri and Bear , you are saying it’s ok we have a veto or it falls under unanimity, I am just saying that there is a clause that exists that allows that to be changed/overruled and a reversion to QMV. The clause is decided on unanimously by the EU leaders if I’m not mistaken.

I was highlighting that I have seen posted and had told to me many times that ‘we don’t have the power in the EU that we like to think we have, and that we are just one small country out of 27’ or the other ‘we are one of the most powerful countries in the EU’ depending on what the discussion is about - we can’t be both obviously.

I've only ever heard reference to the UK being a small fish in a big pond when talking about us being outside the EU.

Where has anyone said we don't have any power within the EU?

And I still have absolutely no clue what you are talking about re veto / unanimity.

This is a very odd discussion. The UK is a relatively large fish in the EU as one of the three largest European economies. Its various opt-outs and concessions testify to its ability to influence European decision making. It has considerable influence in the wider world as part of the world's largest trading bloc.

Outside the EU, it remains one of the largest European economies albeit cut off to a greater or lesser extent (depending on the type of Brexit) from its nearest trading partners. But as a global player it will no longer be part of a bloc of 510 million consumers but a more modest market of 65 million (and if Brexit goes badly, one that has a reputation for torpedoing its trade relationships).

It's a proper bonkers discussion misti.

The logic, or lack therefore, Leavers have simply never ceases to amaze and disappoint me.

Where has anyone said we don't have any power within the EU?

You know, those 2% of EU votes that didn't go the way UK wanted. 2% turns out to be 72 times which sounded like a lot, so Leave campaign didn't mention it was only 2% of all possible votes.

Leave was not a campaign built on misinformation at all, no....