Not the Brexit Arms

[bearbehind]

Since BrexitArmsLandlady says she isn't starting anymore threads here's a place to discuss Brexit developments for those that still want to.

It never ceases to amaze me what a shambles this is.

The cabinet still can't even agree what we want, let alone what we're going to get.

Taking back control in my mind means we decide how we wish to control our borders and if that means we have an open border with ROI then that's fine because we have decided to do that because we have control over our own decisions.
As for our border with the EU mainland I feel we will have a different stance on that.

Yep - the UK would be stuffed if either the US or the Russians blocked access to their satellite navigation systems

www.politico.eu/article/brexit-galileo-navigational-satellite-system-britain-eu-satellite-threat-falls-flat-with-brussels/

The U.K.’s threat to launch its own version of the Galileo navigational satellite system over a Brexit spat with Brussels has one big black hole: Any alternative version is unlikely to match the value of sticking with the EU’s program.

London’s access to the encrypted part of Galileo, called the Public Regulated Service and needed by the military to guide missiles and plan operations, is emerging as a key conflict in talks over the U.K.’s impending departure, with the EU saying that as a third country Britain would no longer have access to such sensitive data.

(contd)

Taking back control in my mind means we decide how we wish to control our borders and if that means we have an open border with ROI then that's fine because we have decided to do that because we have control over our own decisions.

You'll accept an open border with the RoI because you have to. There is no alternative and as a result get BINO. That is not taking back control that is admitting, by default that the leavers dream cannot be realised.

A true Brexit would adhere to the "breaking point" poster e.g hard borders everywhere.

admitting, by default that the leavers dream cannot be realised.

Mainly because they rushed to action (fools rush in ).

Just because Brexit is looking less possible (forget likely) by the day isn't because it was intrinsically impossible. If it had actually been defined before A50 was triggered, it would have been entirely possible to disengage from various EU functions with a clear game plan, and certainty as to how to proceed. As things stand, all Brexiteers can say to the entire UK is "here's a curtain - you've won what's behind it" and then get pissy when people start asking questions.

maybe we should have "Brexit: The Monty Hall version"

The old joke about "if you want to go there I wouldn't start here" seems appropriate. As do so many old music hall jokes and Brexit. Seems they're a match made in Heaven.

You see it one way.
I see it as TM has waste her time by deciding nothing.
It is now so late in the game she has lost and will have no other option than no CM.SU.... as she has no hand to play and no one to back her... roll on brexit.

I think a lot of people under estimate the resolve of the ROI in all this.

ROI is a very competitive and successful State. OK like UK it had its deep recession and IMF and all the rest of it, and I acknowledge, as I suppose they do also the fact that UK helped them out during their darkest days.

When the Queen visited it was a great day for Anglo/Irish relations. I fear that may all disappear because of a few disgruntled people. It should not be like that at all. The GFA was hard won and it should not be sold out for a mess of pottage. The UK and Ireland are intertwined whether we like it or not, for political and emigration reasons and many more too.

Anyway, just to mention, the resolve of the ROI is not just from that country, it is the EU as a whole backing them up. Small countries actually need this type of community when faced with the arrogance and chilling ways of some (I said some) in May's Government who just don't care about anything, but getting rid of her and being glorious again.

Hah.

mummmy your logic is totally flawed.

The fact TM has decided nothing means we'll stay in SM/CU and get BINO.

Anything else, even 'no deal' required plans, which haven't even begun to be thought of.

No one will pull the trigger on 'no deal' because, unlike you, they can see what a disaster it will be.

I will agree one thing, mummy

It is now so late in the game she has lost

So now it's just a question of where will that lead. I know you've been a little bit on the fence over this, but I'd hazard a guess that you believe that it will simply lead to March 29th 2019 being existentially different to March 28th.

I'd go as far to agree with you that it would be "existentially different^.

However, my gut suggests that when peoples existence is at stake, there's scope for drama, betrayal, love merchandising, and a book deal.

And, as Karl Marx once wrote : "Never underestimate the power of a good book deal"

If she had any kind of backing from remain this would already be a done deal and the leave in the cabinet would have been told to shut up. Then you would have your BINO.
Leave is far stronger than you think....
BJ. DD. And RM are now pushing TM off the fence and she either jumps or she falls.....

Mummy as has been pointed out it makes no difference whether TM jumps, falls or is pushed to pursue the Customs 'Agreement' or the Max Facilitation proposal - neither is acceptable to the negotiating party on the other side of the table, so a lot of UK (Tory party) centric further wasting of time.

Let's wait and see, shall we ... there has been one consistent aspect of all Brexiteer predictions up until now which is apart from their sheer diversity the equally impressive lack of coming to pass. I suppose in that respect, Brexit is a religion ....

There is no way RM, DD or BJ will do any more than shout from the back seat.

They won't take the drivers seat because they know it's on the road to nowhere.

Brexit is a poison chalice.

I get the feeling that Leavers are quite jingoistic, without the war mongering. I welcome rebuttal.

I don't think anyone has a clue what will happen, but the signs are not good so far with a lame duck PM and people like Rees Mogg et al, at her heels at every opportunity.

But it could work out fine with no divisions in the country anymore, and a cohesive society, if there ever was one that is...

Dream on folks.

But it could work out fine with no divisions in the country anymore, and a cohesive society, if there ever was one that is...

It is not enough to win. Others must lose ....

Ghost - you have no idea what a 'true Brexit' is so are talking B.S.
That UKIP poster was not in my name and as it looked to me like non EU migrants in it it bared no relation at all to leaving the EU.

Ghost - you have no idea what a 'true Brexit' is so are talking B.S.

Based on what leavers have said - "taking back control" was a key tenet, controlling borders/managing immigration. You'll need border control in Ireland to do that. You won't get it.

That UKIP poster was not in my name and as it looked to me like non EU migrants in it it bared no relation at all to leaving the EU.

It was in the name of UKIP, a party that promoted leaving and was supported, I'd say by a large number of leavers. You cannot erase the uncomfortable parts of the leave campaign. The poster happened. People agree with the sentiment.

Nor can you delete how wrong remain got it on project fear. Which would need a budget the day after a leave vote.

mummy, take alook at the UK's dire economic position since the vote.

Sad to see such division now.

It is not a good sign!

The UK is not bankrupt..
Not will leaving the EU cause this..

mummmy, seriously, what planet are you on?

How will not Leaving bankrupt the UK?

Should have been NOR. Auto correct....
Leavers know we won't be bankrupted by going...... it is so worth it to leave.... your attitude is a major reason I know I did the right thing.

mummy, the impact assessments states the UK will be worse off. I'm yet to hear from a leaver that will even acknowledge the existence of the report.

There is not one leaves on here who has not agreed we will be worse off....how is that refusing to acknowledge your reports?
We are willing to accept this...but tgevreports also say we will have improvement as will the EU just theirs is a bit higher than ours. As the reports are unsure as to what impact the trade deals will have....
We want out. You have to see how we feel it is worth it for what we get out of it.

We want out. You have to see how we feel it is worth it for what we get out of it.

So we are back to 'feelings' again are we?

mummmy have you come up with a single trade deal we can strike outside the EU that we couldn't do before yet?

Feelings mean nothing in this situation unless you can articulate them into meaningful and measurable goals- which you can't.