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Brexit

Not the Brexit Arms

993 replies

bearbehind · 03/05/2018 10:36

Since BrexitArmsLandlady says she isn't starting anymore threads here's a place to discuss Brexit developments for those that still want to.

It never ceases to amaze me what a shambles this is.

The cabinet still can't even agree what we want, let alone what we're going to get.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Rosstac · 16/07/2018 16:45

topcat1980 It’s a real shame that all the remainers can’t read properly it said let’s fund the NHS instead, it didn’t say all of it would be used, I sorry if you presumed otherwise

topcat1980 · 16/07/2018 16:46

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/default.stm

Just one of many sources.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/07/2018 16:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

bellinisurge · 16/07/2018 16:47

@Rosstac -why the snide "why don't you stay in Belgium, then" ? A bit beneath you, surely?

bellinisurge · 16/07/2018 16:49

@Rosstac - it said £350 million goes to EU. (Which is incorrect). Then it said let's fund the NHS. That is some serious disingenuous shit to now say the two weren't really linked directly.

topcat1980 · 16/07/2018 16:56

"it said let’s fund the NHS instead,"

There was also : " lets give the NHS the £350m the EU takes every week"

Now you can argue semantics about it never said it all would be used, or it "could" be used but the inference is pretty clear.

The fact that the £350m is an incorrect figure is one thing. The fact that there will be no Brexit dividend because of the economic impact of leaving is another.

But noooo you loser leavers try to argue the semantics of the point and despite that fact that it was the major tenet of the campaign you all dismiss it and say it wasn't important.

The fact is that the main thrust of the campaign was a lie, the monetary figure wasn't real nor was the idea that any money would go to the NHS and the language used heavily implies this, but is easy for politicians to row back on.

Its funny that for a group of people who bring up people's lack of trust in politicians as being a major reason for Brexit, that you are ready to forgive this particular manipulation of the truth.

But then it gets you what you want.

Or what you think you want because you aren't getting anything.

frumpety · 16/07/2018 17:15

None of the Leavers on here have addressed the issue of who the UK government has a duty to ? 26% of the population or all of the citizens of the UK ? Because the current trajectory is going to be bad for 99.9%

Yaralie · 16/07/2018 17:46

3 million + EU citizens living in the UK, paying taxes and contributing to our society in many ways, should have been allowed to vote. What happened to that foundation stone of democracy "no taxation without representation"?

Bearbehind · 16/07/2018 17:46

New Thread

OP posts:
augury · 19/08/2018 19:31

^
Nonsense. I work in that industry in engineering and international trade, with those companies, the project (and the staff working on the design and manufacturing) is predominantly British.

Firstly, Galileo is not strictly speaking an "EU project", it's a project of the EU's GSA and ESA (The European Space Agency, which is nothing to do with the EU btw).
It also necessarily involves technical cooperation with the USA (due to yet another non-EU organisation, NATO, having an interest), and also China is involved and helps with funding (the project has had lots of funding problems over the years), as well as Switzerland, Norway, Israel, Ukraine, and Morocco. Hence, to describe it as an "EU project" or even a "European" project is misleading.

The EU trying to "exclude" Britain is a little bit "emporer's new clothes".
The technical capabilities and capacity for the parts of the project Britain is involved in don't really exist in the EU; plus the UK is a major defence industry power in the continent, and the capability for continuing the project is not a problem for the UK, but it is a problem for the the EU, which in this industry is mainly France, Germany, Italy, and a little bit in Spain, Belgium, and Holland.
Alone, the UK would speed past the remnants of the Galileo consortium, which would be struggling to scrape together funding and capacity, and that's before the question of refunding the UK's contribution, if they want to keep hold of the IP.

You need to be a little cautious and apply critical thinking and a bit of research when reading papers like "The Independent" and "The Guardian", which have a very unconcealed political agenda.
If only activists posing as journalists bothered to do basic journalistic investigation and properly inform their readers, we perhaps wouldn't be in such a tedious polarised state. As journalists let us all down with their clickbait, we all need to try a little harder to find credible facts from factual sources, not agenda-driven media outlets, and then armed with some basic facts the discussions can be a lot calmer and less personalised.

Space tech expertise is concentrated in a few locations around the world; and the EU has very poor growth compared to the Far East, North America, and other parts of the world. Britain's Aerospace expertise along with it's other areas of expertise is very welcome outside the EU and there's a lot of trade potential for the industry once it's unshackled from politicisation of business decisions, which is what EU involvement in industrial projects like this represents.
People from my part of the world miss the British presence, and the quality and standards it represents, and it's being eroded by being attached to the EU and all it's problems.
Much of the world is not free, and is crying out for Britain to return bring it's benign intellectual influence and free trade. Britain closing itself off from the world in a European club that isn't really doing itself or the rest of the world any good.

augury · 19/08/2018 19:33

^
Nonsense. I work in that industry in engineering and international trade, with those companies, the project (and the staff working on the design and manufacturing) is predominantly British.

Firstly, Galileo is not strictly speaking an "EU project", it's a project of the EU's GSA and ESA (The European Space Agency, which is nothing to do with the EU btw).
It also necessarily involves technical cooperation with the USA (due to yet another non-EU organisation, NATO, having an interest), and also China is involved and helps with funding (the project has had lots of funding problems over the years), as well as Switzerland, Norway, Israel, Ukraine, and Morocco. Hence, to describe it as an "EU project" or even a "European" project is misleading.

The EU trying to "exclude" Britain is a little bit "emporer's new clothes".
The technical capabilities and capacity for the parts of the project Britain is involved in don't really exist in the EU; plus the UK is a major defence industry power in the continent, and the capability for continuing the project is not a problem for the UK, but it is a problem for the the EU, which in this industry is mainly France, Germany, Italy, and a little bit in Spain, Belgium, and Holland.
Alone, the UK would speed past the remnants of the Galileo consortium, which would be struggling to scrape together funding and capacity, and that's before the question of refunding the UK's contribution, if they want to keep hold of the IP.

You need to be a little cautious and apply critical thinking and a bit of research when reading papers like "The Independent" and "The Guardian", which have a very unconcealed political agenda.
If only activists posing as journalists bothered to do basic journalistic investigation and properly inform their readers, we perhaps wouldn't be in such a tedious polarised state. As journalists let us all down with their clickbait, we all need to try a little harder to find credible facts from factual sources, not agenda-driven media outlets, and then armed with some basic facts the discussions can be a lot calmer and less personalised.

Space tech expertise is concentrated in a few locations around the world; and the EU has very poor growth compared to the Far East, North America, and other parts of the world. Britain's Aerospace expertise along with it's other areas of expertise is very welcome outside the EU and there's a lot of trade potential for the industry once it's unshackled from politicisation of business decisions, which is what EU involvement in industrial projects like this represents.
People from my part of the world miss the British presence, and the quality and standards it represents, and it's being eroded by being attached to the EU and all it's problems.
Much of the world is not free, and is crying out for Britain to return bring it's benign intellectual influence and free trade. Britain closing itself off from the world in a European club that isn't really doing itself or the rest of the world any good.

augury · 19/08/2018 19:34

I don't know how this works, but I was responding to a commenter here:

Theworldisfullofgs Thu 10-May-18 09:50:53
amp.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/09/airbus-space-contract-will-move-from-uk-to-continent-because-of-brexit?__twitter_impression=true

Airbus is going.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-could-be-shut-out-of-super-accurate-eu-gps-system-it-helped-to-build-a7574206.html

And another part of Brexit no-one has thought about.

Buteo · 20/08/2018 09:39

Galileo is owned and funded by the EU though?

The Galileo programme is funded and owned by the EU.

The European Commission has overall responsibility for the programme, managing and overseeing the implementation of all activities on behalf of the EU.

Galileo's deployment, its design, and the development of the new generation of systems and the technical development of infrastructure is entrusted to the European Space Agency (ESA).

ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/space/galileo_en

SoloD · 20/08/2018 11:14

I think augury is inaccurate on a number of points.

Britain closing itself off from the world in a European club that isn't really doing itself or the rest of the world any good.

We are loosing all our free trade deals in one go, and trading on WTO terms which if we don't already have EU FTA in place are the terms we are already trading with them. I really don't see the advantage of Brexit? This is just leave nonsense.

PineappleSunrise · 20/08/2018 12:14

augury also appears to think that the info s/he is refuting came from the Guardian and the Independent, rather than from industry bodies and arch-Leaver Richard North (who is still freaking out at how his vision of being out of the EU is being turned into an opportunity to asset strip the country).

That's the problem with assuming that you can assign bias to information you just don't want to hear. You end up misattributing in your eagerness to not take a damned thing on board.

Buteo · 20/08/2018 12:27

When the first assertion (that “Galileo is not strictly speaking an EU Project”) is so easily refuted it makes me take anything else with a hefty pinch of salt.

SoloD · 20/08/2018 12:50

This is a bit of a howler as well

The European Space Agency, which is nothing to do with the EU btw

You will never guess who is the biggest contributor to ESA? Or is trying to make it an agency of itself?

If you want to remain credible best not to make things up which can't be exposed by a quick check on their website.

Yaralie · 23/09/2018 19:54

Only Remain remains credible.

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