The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

if you cannot concede that those - millions upon millions - of people who voted leave have a point on some level

Unless those people make their point clear I'm not sure how any of us are supposed to understand what it is.

All that is said is contradictory, rhetoric nonsense.

I'm not goading at all, I'm asking you to explain what your 'sound reasons' are.

The only 'point' many Leavers seem to have is their desire to 'make a point' i.e. To give the government a bloody nose even though it had nothing to do with the EU.

The irony that it is the same government, hugely weakened now, which you are relying on to deliver this is staggering.

JWIM and Ghost not sure if you have watched the programme? The conclusion as I heard it was that the people are some way ahead of the politicians and the political apparatus, including the GFA and solutions to the "Brexit border".

I did watch the programme. I agree that the people are ahead of the politicians in the NI parliament with regard to moving on from the period of the 'troubles'/civil war. They expressed (apart from one man) a wish for the GFA/BA/peace agreement to be implemented. There was no comment about solutions to the border with regard to Brexit merely a visual example of what the border looked like prior to the peace agreement and how it is now.

Apologies - meant to delete the first para. Just copied it from previous page for my ref.

But Bear, our ‘sound reasons’ are never good enough for you, that’s the point!
It doesn’t matter what reasons we give you just dismiss them as nonsense.
So we don’t bother. We stopped bothering last year. So coming on these threads and asking the same questions over & over again could be seen as goading.
I personally think you’re one of the more genuine remainers on here, there’s a good 3 or 4 ahead of you in the ‘goady’ category.

@Heyduggeesflipflop

Being an optimist, I'm a bit disappointed with your lack of engagement with the arguments and the overall defensive stance. The point of this thread is to celebrate Brexit such as it is shaping up to be, which is exactly what we are doing and thus we are staying if only for that reason.

Surfer

But if the arguments you make are logically refuted, then if you believe in your case you'll try to present irrefutable ones instead. Just stopping bothering as a response to the repeated contestation of your points tends to make people think you haven't got any cogent arguments to make.

I think it's important we keep the dialogue going and hope this doesn't make me one of the 3 or 4

But my reasons for leaving makes perfect sense to me, they just don’t make sense to you.
That’s not really my problem is it.

But if you can't express what makes perfect sense to you in a manner which makes similar sense to us, either your powers of expression are at fault or there is a flaw in the message. In that sense, it is indeed your problem if we want to keep the dialogue going.

No-one is wilfully refusing to engage with what you're saying, they're just considering what you say, failing to see the purported perfect sense in it and coming back with arguments to explain why. Thesis, antithesis and, we hope, synthesis.

Has anyone put out the welcome mat for Heyduggeesflipflop yet? If not, may I be the first to say "Welcome to Mumsnet". Your posting history is interesting - I especially like the bit where you're calling a particular group 'loons' on another thread, while objecting to the term on here.

I especially liked the use of the word ‘loon’ as I never actually used it!

Thesis, antithesis and, we hope, synthesis.

Have you learnt nothing in the last two years?

Mistigri

"Have you learnt nothing in the last two years?"

Probably not. Why break the habits of a lifetime?

I just think there's nothing to be gained by both sides barking insults at each other or flouncing off in a huff. At some point, we'll need to strike a balance, if only because there are other hugely pressing issues which are being shoved to one side while we deal with Brexit.

if only because there are other hugely pressing issues which are being shoved to one side while we deal with Brexit

Yes.
The murder rate in London ( where I live ) is now worse than New York.
I doubt the young people caught up in this gang culture give Brexit a 2nd thought, nor do most of the people living amongst them.
Brexit is a middle class topic of conversation these days.
Yes, the working classes overwhelmingly voted to leave, but they aren’t still prattling on about it 2 years later.

Yes, but ignoring the potentially huge consequences because it's "boring" now won't make them go away. Nothing is resolved and we still haven't left yet, so we all still need to engage with the issues (or prattle on about it, however you see it).

If David Lammy is correct that the gang culture is being fuelled by E European drug, arms and people trafficking and that the UK is the base for EU operation of these gangs then perhaps Brexit will help. Even he is calling for better border controls.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43653291

Btw a bit of lies, lies and stats going on. Only higher than NY if you don't count Jan and still only about the same rate as in 2008. Also Glasgow being lauded as a model to follow but still has the same rate as the current London one (albeit a lot lower than it used to be).

Of course rising crime will have nothing to do with cuts to Police numbers. The government isn't helping people or communities now why would it change post Brexit?

www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/politics/police-cuts-by-a-third-with-rising-crime-is-devastating-tower-hamlets-warns-government-1-5391206

I just think there's nothing to be gained by both sides barking insults at each other or flouncing off in a huff. At some point, we'll need to strike a balance, if only because there are other hugely pressing issues which are being shoved to one side while we deal with Brexit.

Agree with this mahoosively.

I just think there's nothing to be gained by both sides barking insults at each other or flouncing off in a huff. At some point, we'll need to strike a balance, if only because there are other hugely pressing issues which are being shoved to one side while we deal with Brexit.

Which could be characterised as people who oppose Brexit being dragooned into it "for the greater good"

Perhaps if we stopped letting half the world into the U.K. we wouldn’t need to spend millions on public services.

Has that thought ever crossed your closed mind?

What half of the world is that that we are letting in? Global population is currently @7 billion human beings.

Also, what proportion of public services is spent directly on first generation immigrants to the UK? And what is their contribution to the UK tax base.

It does not help the case for those in support of leaving the EU to use language that is emotive and not based on fact.

Has that thought ever crossed your closed mind?

Have you ever provided evidence/facts to back your bold claims up?

Migrants contribute £25bn to UK economy, study finds

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/05/migration-target-useless-experts

"Half the world ". You know the EU isn't half the world, right?

Two fingers

Thanks for rolling out the welcome mat. Flattered you have read my previous posts. Can’t say I have reciprocated...

Bearbehind

Yes I apologise - I agree you never used the word loon. That makes swivel eyed ok presumably...

You staunch remainers do make me smile though - you are like loyal soldiers that are unaware the war is finished and they can pack up and go home. Remain ism - the sport of middle class orchestra lovers the uk over (though presumably mostly in London). If ever there was a part of the uk that needed floating offshore it is London...

Wow, not content with damaging the UK brexiteers now want to chip away at England by floating London offshore. Odd.