Leavers Lagoon - all systems are go. all lights are green

[surferjet]

Good news yesterday < gets out green highlighter >
Still work to be done but it’s another step in the right direction.

Ps: completely given up on the Brexit Arms as it’s been taken over by remainers.
This is our chilled out place to post on in the run up to March 2019.

Positive people only

It's not a case of being trapped.

The fact is the amount of damage that we will inflict on ourselves by leaving SM/CU simply isn't worth it.

@Mummy2017: Of course there is a way to leave the EU - the big question is though: does it make sense?

It looks like even most of the pro-Brexit Tories understand it doesn't. It looks like on account of the will of the people bollocks we are still going to go ahead and shoot ourselves in the foot with some BINO nonsense, but this way we'll just lose a few toes, maybe half the foot, instead of blowing the whole leg clean off right under the hip, if that makes sense.

BTW I hate to digress, but your job description doesn't suggest you are involved in any sort of rigorous prediction business. Mind you, people constantly generate predictions in everyday activities, so I can see how you could have confused yourself about that.

Because this was never what we joined for.
We have been trapped into this.
D.C. the idiot and his ego gave us an out option....
We voted for it...

Pity you can't talk to the people who lost money because they didn't listen one lost his house...
But hey ho your only a name in a forum not real to me at all.

No we are not trapped. But there are a series of rules in place that need to be followed in the correct order in order to achieve leaving the EU. First of all those who advocate leaving the EU will need to determine what 'status' the UK will have once the country has left the EU. Without that status those advocating leaving the EU cannot take the correct steps in the correct order to leave the EU ending up at the status first determined.

So let's look at just one tricky aspect (there are many others so just solving one is not an absolute answer):
If the final UK status is to have left the SM/CU we already know that the border on the island of Ireland presents a problem. So if leavers want to resolve this and make a success of actually leaving the EU first they needed to get the changes in place to the agreed status of the border by amending the GFA/BA/peace agreement - not sure what precisely that would include but let's say that border infrastructure would be now OK. Had the leavers taken those steps and the 'agreement' agreed by all relevant parties (I know that is a big assumption) the discussions now taking place would not have required a whole section on 'Ireland' that has to be agreed before moving discussions on to post transition UK status.

Of course we’re not trapped. We have given notice to leave and - unless there is a change of heart in Parliament - we will be leaving on 29/3/19.

We could walk away then with no deal, we could fling open our borders to the world, we could tightly close our borders to keep immigration down & ‘protect British jobs’ (), we could throw Ireland & NI under the bus; there are many options but what is becoming increasingly apparent to those who have access to expert information and advice is that a hard Brexit would be enormously damaging to the UK.

Not sure. Lost a house because they didn’t listen. Not clear who the they is.

No Dragon he invested in a product he couldn't sell. We did predict it wasn't worth buying as he would be able to generate an income. But he knew better. So he ended up having to sell his home as it was his only asset to cover his lease.
JWIM So your saying the is no way to square NI with the GFA in place so we are the EU prisoner as I stated...

I can’t face all the thread. Did anyone come up with anything positive about leaving? I need some positivity this week.

So this is the only way to leave... strange that... as you keep saying there was another way...But really there isn't .

Bugger all. Mummmy is talking about her job as an angel.

(tumbleweed)

No, if we want to leave on the terms that the UK is no longer in the SM/CU then first the UK must give notice under the GFA/BA/Peace Agreement to renegotiate the terms so that the border is no longer seamless and infrastructure OK, then get agreement from all parties, then pursue leaving the EU for the status that the UK is out of the SM/CU.

There will be other issues that would need similar preparatory steps - all before Art 50 notice is given (that ship has sailed maybe, legal case etc). Gibraltar springs to mind. Aviation/Transport. Those 700 + agreements the UK accesses through being an EU Member State - what would need to be in place to require the other party countries to extend the agreement terms outside the EU to a former MS such as the UK.

So no, not trapped, just piss poor planning.

Isn't 50 notice to quit and try to work it all out...
Or we can talk for ever and do nothing with no time limit your way...

@Devilishpyjamas. Not a sausage.

Thanks @Talkstotrees - not surprised by I thought after 17 pages they might have found something

Is that what you tell your clients when they seek your guidance on how to successfully set up business? Set up business, then work out what you are going to do after, not before, and then hope it will be a success.

So no, Art 50 notice and then chat about how it is going to go is neither sensible nor logical. Going back to your own working experience - what if the business success was based on obtaining a loan by a certain date, and then you found out that all lenders would make the loan but not until after the date you needed.

If you can't get the loan you can't trade.
Is it wrong to tell someone that a product may be wonderful in their eyes, have a great mark up but not be sell able.... too know it's size will tie up masses of space which will add to the costs of business overheads and so actually eat up your profits.... So people don't realise what overheads are.
Article 50 is how the EU want it done. So your saying they got it wrong...
Seems everyone is wrong if they don't agree with you...

The EU have been asking the British side how they intend to deal with NI. So far the British have kicked the can down the road. A50 shouldn’t have been triggered until there was a viable plan. The problem is that leavers whether in government or on this thread haven’t the foggiest.

But in my analogy you can get the loan you just need to plan for it. Art 50 should have been (assuming it has been actioned by the UK) AFTER it had been determined that all the necessary preparation had been carried out to make leaving possible.

Now there is already a legal challenge that the UK may not even have actioned Art 50 correctly so the clock hasn't started running. Even if we have started the clock running we have not taken the preparatory steps to make leaving possible partly because we have yet to decide what a 'left the EU' UK looks like.