The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

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The Tories have lifted many low paid people out of tax, they continued to raise the minimum wage.

We've got record number of people using food banks, zhcs, under employment and wage stagnation. All due to Tory policy/austerity and not the EU.

User people have their own ideas about why we voted as we did.
Your never going to get anyone on here who voted remain to see that it is possible too not jump of a cliff and leave, as it would mean a lot of their arguments would be blown.

Even the Bank of England and DC himself can see it's not all doom and gloom ahead.

Remind me again, when is your operation to remove your head from your arse?

As I said, the standard of debate here is hardly Harvard or Yale. Your unwarranted insult rather underscores my point, not yours. But then almost everything Brexit drips with irony anyway.

I'll let you know about my caputlectomy

Your never going to get anyone on here who voted remain to see that it is possible too not jump of a cliff and leave, as it would mean a lot of their arguments would be blown

Actually it would have been possible. But not by next year. Don't put words into my mouth.

Even the Bank of England and DC himself can see it's not all doom and gloom ahead.

Oh what ringing endorsements! Well worth 40 billion plus!

Ok I give up,
Enjoy your remain bubbles, I voted remain. slowly realised Brexit could work. Listen to people I respect, who voted leave, left and right, realised there was a future.
Saw a sad person, posted to help her, stayed'
Can't be arsed anymore. I will just lurk. Continue knowing what's best for places you have never been/even want to visit. We aren't Liverpool, that's you're problem, we are all different, but the Eu won't allow different strategies for us.
I'll go and support my eldest look after the Special Olympics swimming event on Saturday, it is so much better use of my time.
Enjoy the snow, stay safe and I hope Brexit works for everyone.
Even us in Hull, god knows it needs to

we are all different

Indeed we are. So lets see a Brexit that works equally for Belfast, Glasgow, rural Wales, Hull and London. Good luck with that.

When I worked part time the con/lib gov did massively reduce my tax bill. As someone with a stable regular but part time LA set wage this worked well for me.
I agree user there were too many people left behind in the hinterlands but I would say that the UK governments left them behind and the EU was an easy scapegoat. I think their anger has been misdirected by politicians who have no intention of making their lives better.
I would have expected the conservatives to look after the economy if nothing else but the personally wealthy ideologues who are pushing for hard Brexit appear to have no interest in this.
I would also like far more people to be considering Brexit but it is a complicated mess of an issue to ponder.

but the Eu won't allow different strategies for us.

user, you're clearly ignoring my question about how the situation in some northern towns is the fault of the EU.

Maybe you could explain your latest comment; what strategies has the EU prevented us from following?

Maybe you could explain your latest comment; what strategies has the EU prevented us from following?

Can't you google it ?

Could somebody explain to me why the
Unelected, Unaccountable, based overseas WTO is a good thing
but the
Elected, accountable, based overseas EU is a bad thing

The WTO has 800 staff in Geneva who do not answer to the electorates of any country ....

From Ghost
Indeed we are. So lets see a Brexit that works equally for Belfast, Glasgow, rural Wales, Hull and London. Good luck with that
I actually think it could, all we have to do, is see we have more in common and get the Mp's of all parties to stop fucking playing party politics, and put the country first.
Because if you say we can't make it work for 4 nations in a united kingdom, how can any remainer seriously argue that the Eu has a future, it has to make it work for 27.
Or is that different?

user my version of politicians putting the country first would be to be clear about the costs of Brexit, what we would lose and what we could possibly gain. I can see a US style deregulated market, good for wealthy and bad for everyone else, a heavily regulated state owned country which I don't see the successful precedents for or a Norway style link which is a less beneficial version of what we have now. We live in a democracy and if people really want to vote for one of these three options they have every right to do so. The highly divided political parties mean that there is a real lack of clarity and purpose in the two main parties and a lack,of honesty about the impact of the choices they are making. I think one problem is that the main two parties are both really internally divided about what is in the best interest of the country and what the least worst politically viable option looks like.

I actually think it could, all we have to do, is see we have more in common and get the Mp's of all parties to stop fucking playing party politics, and put the country first.

My first thoughts are Northern Ireland and the DUP.

Because if you say we can't make it work for 4 nations in a united kingdom, how can any remainer seriously argue that the Eu has a future, it has to make it work for 27.
Or is that different?

Because the EU is united. NI and Scotland want to remain. England is divided. Even the government is divided. It is a mess.

user147
Mp's of all parties to stop fucking playing party politics, and put the country first.
You are deluded.
Why on earth would members of political parties suddenly lose their allegiances just to make you happy?

Because if you say we can't make it work for 4 nations in a united kingdom, how can any remainer seriously argue that the Eu has a future, it has to make it work for 27
Make what work?
Which bit of the EU is broken by the current version of consensus policy making?
Its not perfect, monetary alignment is a bit of a car crash
but freedom to trade is making every country richer
and allowing workers to fill the labour shortages across the continent (as Brits did in Germany in the 80's)

Bear,
have you been to Hull, Featherstone, Wakefield, Grimsby.
We lost massive employers, fishing, mines, steel, Hull was a massive timber importing/working city, well East Hull. west was fishing.
But when we joined Eu Scandinavian timber products became cheaper, so Hull lost fishing and timber, what did we get to replace it, a few new swimming pools, a couple of new link roads, built in tunnels which flooded and never opened.
Same in west Yorkshire mining villages. great rugby clubhouses no jobs. The Eu backed Uk government policy, it was Mrs Thatcher's government who demand the SM, so her pet projects of Banking and car factories could access the whole of Europe, but be based in the UK. Great for London, and the odd place like Derby with Toyota, Sunderland with Nissan. Crap for us. I can remember her selling it as the great positive or EU membership
Here's the kicker though, Eu regional funding, took Fenner's from Hull to South Wales, Birds Eye from Hull to Lowestoft, Northern Foods from Hull to Leeds what came back nothing.
1000's of jobs lost in a deprived north city, which had already lost it's 2 main employers. So can I ask you bearbehind what you think the Eu did for Hull please.
I wasn't ignoring your question, I trying to choose my words to not sound rude or offend anyone.

user you've even said yourself that all of the above was government policy.

Why on earth do you think that's going to change outside the EU?

If anything it's going to get worse.

Or are you pinning your hopes on the same magic money tree that mummmy is?

The fallout from Brexit will be such that we have to look for quick wins just to get by, we're not suddenly going to plough money into areas which aren't going to show a quick return on investment. We can't afford to.

So can I ask you bearbehind what you think the Eu did for Hull please.

What was the EU supposed to do?

It was our governments decision.

Your logic is completely flawed; the EU wasn't to blame fir all our ills and still isn't now.

Leaving is going to make things worse, not better.

Well your all honest on here, you want MP's to continue to argue, fuck over our country and then you can all told you it would be crap, and we stay'
Thank god Mr Churchill and Mr Atlee, decided different in 1945.
Are you really supporting the Idea that Labour ousting TM next week, by supporting the tory rebels SM/CU amendments, then another 6 weeks of GE, uncertainly, and then we all start again, is really in all our interests. Because I am sorry, that will lead to mummmy2017 crash out and wto rules, you all claim to hate
Who knew it everyone on here wants us to leave on wto, great.
Grow up, act like adults, both you and MP's.
My son is 17, his school voted 100% remain in build up to referendum, the 100 or so students still there last week voted to leave and even thought it could work, but want adults to act like adults. Hope you are proud, if we do crash and burn.

A few additional questions for @user:
Would the deprivation be deeper or shallower had Britain not joined EU? Please justify extensively. Hint: we used to have a fair number of well-paid jobs for people called "computers", doing things like linear algebra by hand. These disappeared around the time Britain joined the European project. Could this be a coincidence?

Were things going well before (the sick man of Europe)?

Would Nissan etc. choose the UK if it were outside the EU?

Would the UK be better off without the £70B per annum in tax receipts from financial services burgeoning due to EU membership (e.g. all the Swiss banks have their EU HQs here).

user, the 48% have been ignored by the government. Leavers wanted to take back control. This is it an inept government making a mess of Brexit.

Are you really supporting the Idea that Labour ousting TM next week, by supporting the tory rebels SM/CU amendments, then another 6 weeks of GE, uncertainly, and then we all start again

TM isn't going to get ousted next week, if only.

However, I absolutely do not support your notion we should all put up and shut up just to show solidarity.

is really in all our interests. Because I am sorry, that will lead to mummmy2017 crash out and wto rules, you all claim to hate

No it won't.

We'll have to accept whatever we're offered because we can't afford not to given we've made absolutely no provision for anything other than cake.

No bear, EU SM/CU stops tariffs, government aid, so we can be flooded with cheap Swedish wooden products, government can't say actually Hull needs help to adjust, we add 10% tax on wooden products and use it to adjust, find new products. At Hollis Brothers, they lost 1450 jobs in 16 months, because Swedish and Danish wood products where been sold cheaper here, then the Swedish/Danish wood companies would sell timber to Hollis, but that's okay, because it was thick northerners, MY DAD, thanks I really loved 5 years on FSM in a rough northern comp, no holidays and 1 Christmas present/year.
My dad never asked for this, he did night school at 40 to then train as a teacher, of his own back, we got fuck all from your EU friends, except 5 years of pain and my mum working 3 jobs a day to keep paying the mortgage.
oh look 35 years later, still in the EU and we have the same in Hull for many, some never worked again, so one more time bear what did the EU do for my city

user your head is stuck in the past.

It's a smaller world now; people won't accept higher prices just to support local industry., when they know there's an alternative.

It's naive to think otherwise.

Just look at the local town high street compared to out of town shopping centres across the country.

You need to get your head out of your idealistic cloud and accept the realities of the situation.

Hull and other cities are not going to gain from Brexit, they are just going to be further damaged.