The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

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LondonMum8
Well we won't be paying into Eu coffers, so that money could go to education.
DG Ros, Have you been to Hull/Grimsby or the old pit villages like Featherstone, Stanninton, Stanley, it still fairly grim now, that's 2 generations, that's why leave won.
Hull has 1 in 4 living in poverty, a child's university, which says over 8000 primary school children have never left the city, many not left their streets.
Imagine being one of those families, being told by D Cameron/T Blair and other rich people, who's governments since 1979 showed fuck all care about you, vote to remain, it will be a bed of roses.
But that bed of roses is already rotten, you may as well vote for change, after all you had to wait 40 years for the chance, many will be dead if they wait to the next vote.
It's so easy to think the Eu is wonderful if you are doing okay, it's crap if you're not, thanks to neo liberal policies my part of the north was abandoned, it decided to abandon the EU too

Any saving in Eu contributions will have to be offset against the ongoing cost of access to the Single Market - however that is achieved.

Incidentally, I still can't seem to winkle out those news reports about how EU member states are doing their Tory party tribute act of squabbling together. Maybe, like unicorns, they don't and never have existed ?

It would be interesting if the Government now say...well, okay, lets run that past the EU.

I mean...if it has legs, and keeps everyone happy as is being suggested, whats to stop them from doing so?

Would the remain voters then back the Government?

Interesting.

It's so easy to think the Eu is wonderful if you are doing okay, it's crap if you're not, thanks to neo liberal policies my part of the north was abandoned, it decided to abandon the EU too

This is actually cringe worthy. Brexit was sold to you by people who support neo liberalism. You'll find that May/Hammond have a very similar economic outlook to Cameron/Osborne. To think Brexit is a socialist/equality project is truly Orwellian.

"Well we won't be paying into Eu coffers, so that money could go to education."

It's like talking to genuine imbeciles. Can you read my posts above please?

Do people really still believe there will be extra money to hand out after leaving the EU? I know no one at all who believes that now; this is the only place I've seen it mooted recently. There will be no extra money. You were conned. Sadly.

DG Ros, Have you been to Hull/Grimsby or the old pit villages like Featherstone, Stanninton, Stanley, it still fairly grim now, that's 2 generations, that's why leave won.

I did a lot of work on a British Steel site that was funded by the EU - hundreds of millions. Then British Steel went belly up, and it was converted into luxury flats.

In the same job, I did some preparatory work for an EU spearhead initiative in recycling. I was working for the only firm in the world that could deliver this element. The team I was in were very proud with the answer we came up with, and the local authority that would have hosted it was also overjoyed. It would have been a world first.

came to nought, as the parent firm of the firm I worked for wasn't allowed to engage in projects that their big US customers didn't like - especially as rivals. In the end Ireland got the dosh, and a consortium of EU companies (Siemens leading) took over.

I know facts are pretty poor currency in Brexit debates, but whenever you dig into any story where the UK has suffered "because of the EU", 80% of the time it's always the UKs fault.

Like non-EU immigration. The UK could have sorted that out whenever it wanted

Having lived in the north of England I do get the emotional responses that drove some people to vote leave, I know some of these people. But and it is a big but,I see nothing in Brexit which will help them and nothing in the politics of JRM and the like which suggests any interest in them. All the evidence points to these areas being most impacted by Brexit and these areas getting poorer.

On a different point I agree that Corbyn's policies are another version of cake and eat it and haven't spoken to any other remainers who think otherwise, a slightly more pragmatic cake solution but he is a Brexit supporter just not a neo-liberal one.

Ghost
Sorry but I am from one of those satellite cities, well its rural hinterland, too be precise, you sound like New Labour, keep the big cities happy, enough people too vote you into power keep you in power, but screw over the rest.
Mrs Thatcher promised trickle down economics, that was 1979, it hasn't arrived yet.
There are signs of change, Derry/Hull/Coventry all Uk city of Culture.
Hull has £855 million investment since 2016.
But we aren't sexy and we didn't do the right thing, so we need damning, and fine, but if remainers and the Politian's continue like this, northern satellite areas will abandon mainstream politics, and then Ukip or even populist parties like take over.
We even have a Yorkshire Party, which has some quite extreme ideas, hidden well behind more popular ideas.
Is that what you all really want
The Yorkshire party increased it vote share by 15% in some parts , be careful of what you wish for, when you dismiss us satellite areas, we are taxpayers and voters just like you, we too are Uk citizens, not second class peasants.

we too are Uk citizens, not second class peasants.

Who ? Remainers, or Northerners ?

Mrs Thatcher promised trickle down economics, that was 1979, it hasn't arrived yet.

yes, that was the British government not the EU.

There are signs of change, Derry/Hull/Coventry all Uk city of Culture.
Hull has £855 million investment since 2016.

Happening whilst in the EU.

But we aren't sexy and we didn't do the right thing, so we need damning, and fine, but if remainers and the Politian's continue like this, northern satellite areas will abandon mainstream politics, and then Ukip or even populist parties like take over.

It wasn't just satellite towns. Liverpool was deprived in the 80's, it certainly wasn't sexy. The EU Capital of Culture award helped change that.

I really give up, The EU was wonderfully, all lay down at feat of it power, abandon 2/3 of the country to further dismay and hardship, because we are non city dwellers or don't live in the SE, and keep the 48% in their lovely cosy lives.
But just remember in these places you dismiss we too pay taxes, and if we are ignored, we may start voting in ways you will never like.
After 2019, I can vote for party I like, left right or centre.
Can I also say, that both Labour and Tory parties, both claim to want to bring in more workers rights/environmental protections, so this idea we will be worse off, seems it bit silly.
Also any party who proposed such ideas, is likely to lose at next GE, dementia tax anyone?

Liverpool was deprived in the 80's, it certainly wasn't sexy.

Like the London docklands. Anyone remember the LDDC ? (Which was the model for Liverpools regeneration by the way).

I have to say that I find Liverpool a great city on visits (DW was born there). It's probably my favorite city outside London. And I say that as someone living in Brum. I can't urge people to visit enough (we'll be popping up soon for the Terracotta Warriors

user which part of deprivation and hardship in northern towns is the fault of the EU?

But just remember in these places you dismiss we too pay taxes, and if we are ignored, we may start voting in ways you will never like.

Spartas reply to Macedonia springs to mind. (And I love the irony that Boris would know that instantly - as we know from Goggleboxs, Corbyns classical knowledge is a tad shaky).

I really give up, The EU was wonderfully, all lay down at feat of it power, abandon 2/3 of the country to further dismay and hardship, because we are non city dwellers or don't live in the SE, and keep the 48% in their lovely cosy lives.

If anyone abandoned towns it was the UK government. You pretty much admitted that yourself with your comment about Thatcher. The EU has been putting money into smaller towns.

But just remember in these places you dismiss we too pay taxes, and if we are ignored, we may start voting in ways you will never like.

er, I'm a northerner. Don't care how you vote but suspect it'll be against your own interests.

Can I also say, that both Labour and Tory parties, both claim to want to bring in more workers rights/environmental protections, so this idea we will be worse off, seems it bit silly.

Yeah, the Tories have a great track record with workers rights don't they? And they are really trustworthy arent they?

I love Mumsnet,
You come on and try to explain positives happening in Hull, people dismiss them as pointless, you try to explain why people voted leave people dismiss you and tell you you're talking out your arse.
I can see why most leavers, have given up.
You know what, if all you remainers, had gone out and spoken to people in places like Hull/Grimsby over last 25 years and listened, not dismiss people like me, and brought in small changes, you may have won, never needed to have referendum in 1st place. But the Eu and Uk governments decided they knew what was best, much of the Eu economic policy was framed/influenced by Mrs Thatcher's neo liberal ideas.
The middle classes and upper classes did brilliantly, rest of us got crumbs, well most of my family, friends and work/sport colleagues decided you could keep your reforms, and they just wanted out.
Sad thing is I could of told you that in 2000 and it only got worse here. What did the Uk and Eu do it stop it, nothing they just continued.

But the Eu and Uk governments decided they knew what was best, much of the Eu economic policy was framed/influenced by Mrs Thatcher's neo liberal ideas

I'll ask you again user, what part did the EU play specific to northern towns?

You know what, if all you remainers, had gone out and spoken to people in places like Hull/Grimsby over last 25 years and listened, not dismiss people like me, and brought in small changes, you may have won, never needed to have referendum in 1st place

I didn't realise there were no remainers in Hull. I'm a little ashamed of my ignorance.

Is anyone else surprised at how few people actually post on this board?
I mean, for something that’s so important there’s not many of us talking about it.

I'll ask you again user

(a) already answered (er, no actually, but it is an answer in itself)
(b) why do I have to reply ? (Well it's where a debate becomes a lecture)
(c) wah ! why are you so obsessed with something I said five pages ago.
(d)

Is anyone else surprised at how few people actually post on this board?

Well the standard of debate here is hardly clearing the fog.

I mean, for something that’s so important there’s not many of us talking about it.

That sentence is missing a word to make it accurate.

much of the Eu economic policy was framed/influenced by Mrs Thatcher's neo liberal ideas.

Post Brexit you are going to get neo liberalism on steroids. Hold tight.

Ghost,
The Tories have lifted many low paid people out of tax, they continued to raise the minimum wage.
Of the 5 nearest Tory Mps to us, only one went to a private school, and are actually good local Mp's. It is interesting that many actually back leave, but seriously thought they would lose and had plans to support Cameron's reforms.
They won, one is Brexit secretary, another is working class belonged a union, and regularly votes against the extremes. I am not scared of them.

The Tories have lifted many low paid people out of tax, they continued to raise the minimum wage.

No they haven't.