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Original poster

Where do you realistically think we go from here?

543 replies

Bearbehind · 17/10/2017 17:57

So Amber Rudd says 'no deal is unthinkable' and David Davis says the opposite.

DD also says we'd only agree to a transition period if the terms of our deal were known before hand.

The EU are still insisting the 3 priorities are addressed before talks can move to trade so basically we're at a stand off.

Something has to give at some point.

Regardless of what you want to happen, what do you think will actually happen.

I think we will walk away from the talks, all hell will break loose when the repercussions of that come to the fore and we'll end up staying in the EU in some capacity but in a much weaker position than before.

OP posts:
lljkk · 23/10/2017 08:41

This is saying that WTO rules might also impede such a ban on live exports. That probably doesn't matter to the animal rights protesters, and anyway the WTO has such poor teeth that their rules aren't very well enforced.

Carolinesbeanies · 23/10/2017 08:44

"No problem for those who are no longer resident in the UK - as long as they have a British, pref. English sounding name they just come back and sponge off the NHS to which they are no longer entitled to, using a relative's address. Meanwhile UK residents with foreign sounding names have to prove their entitlement."

Ah, here we go again. Because the UKs racist one then assumes? Oh well, makes a change accusing NHS staff of racism, instead of simply leavers.

RandomlyGenerated · 23/10/2017 08:55

From the Jan 2017 Parliamentary Briefing Note, Defra Minister George Eustice:

There have been disputes about the degree to which reliance can be placed on animal welfare standards in trade negotiations, but equally, there are legal precedents and case law to support the use of ethical bans on certain practices and the reflection of animal welfare in trade agreements. I do not believe that anything along the lines that we would propose will cause any difficulty whatever with WTO rules.

Corcory · 23/10/2017 08:56

Wow Bear!

What are you on?

Caroline's Arrogance Astounds you!!

You are the one constantly for 18 months going on about there being no plan and then when someone mentions a 'plan' you react like that!

Arrogance seems to be a word you use a lot!

Peregrina · 23/10/2017 08:59

Ah, here we go again. Because the UKs racist one then assumes? Oh well, makes a change accusing NHS staff of racism, instead of simply leavers.

I wasn't at all surprised to see that Caronline did not recognise sarcasm.

This comes from reading the news and knowing at least one ex-pat who quite happily uses a false address. Government Policies have made an issue of 'foreigners' using the NHS when they are not entitled to, when one issue, if there is one, is of the ex-pats who have lost their entitlement nipping back for treatment.

I will certainly accuse the Government of being racist. How many 'mistakes' has the Home Office made? No one is accusing the NHS staff of racism, per se. As we have seen though, the implementation of such measures tends to be left to junior admin staff, who may well apply rules blindly and erroneously. We have already seen it happening in schools, where some schools have not apparently realised that a question about Nationality is optional. There have been threads about this on MN.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 23/10/2017 09:05

Not caroline specifically but her comment is a good example of our arrogance- why don't we need a plan?

I do use the word arrogant a lot because it perfectly describes the fact we think we can click our fingers and everyone will do exactly as we want.

They won't, we're not that important.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 23/10/2017 09:12

In case anyone wants to deny that the Govt tries to discriminate against foreigners, try this:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-plan-to-register-eu-citizens-would-be-illegal-say-meps

Carolinesbeanies · 23/10/2017 09:17

The current Spanish government (those lilylivered weak and wet bunch of yes men....thats sarcasm Peregrina) have responded to the UK clicking fingers at them? Of course they have Hmm

I could have spent a month, writing a plan for Spanish and Uk ex pats. Then they do this. Bastards. Back to the draining board.

Corcory · 23/10/2017 09:25

Bear - no one here has ever said we would just ' click our fingers' and everything would be done as we wish - where on earth do you get that idea?

Peregrina - Amber Rude is trying to establish a system for the registration of non UK residents from EU countries who would have a right to stay in this country after we leave. Because the government is suggesting we have a period after March 2019 to integrate all our systems these MEPs are suggesting that this idea is against FOM rules. But we wouldn't be in the EU any more. This is for when we leave so surely this doesn't apply. Where is the racism in this?

Original poster
Bearbehind · 23/10/2017 09:30

corcory you might want to reread carolines post; that's exactly what she's saying.

The irony of you asking 'what I was on' because I've been on about a plan and caroiline mentioned the word 'plan' is hysterical.

She only mentioned 'plan' to say we don't need one Hmm

OP posts:
Carolinesbeanies · 23/10/2017 09:34

I really didnt say that.

The fact many leavers have said many times that countries like Spain, France etc are NOT going to kick out UK expats and their money.....is not arrogance. Spain have just stated exactly that. No fingers were involved.

Carolinesbeanies · 23/10/2017 09:41

You need a 'plan' bear, for the actualities of what needs to be done. As most remainers here are struggling with how stuff works currently, never mind how stuff will work post brexit, relying instead on baseless drivel in the media from alarmists and the uninformed, I can categorically say, there will be no 'plan' whilst (as Spain has just demonstrated) the high probability is the current forseen issues from remainers, turn out to not be issues at all.

Peregrina · 23/10/2017 09:42

Corcory - you ask, where is the racism in Government actions? I have read numerous reports since the Referendum about people being wrongly told to leave, issues around students overstaying visas, when, when some proper research was done, was found to apply to a small number.

As for this suggestion about Amber Rudd trying to register EU citizens, when we would/would not be in the EU, depending presumably on whether we have transition arrangements or what they are, is something which would need to be properly thrashed out - no one can really say at the moment. I tend to agree that we either have ID cards for all, or no one. I know that Blair had some convoluted, expensive ideas, which the Tories squashed, but I suspect a simple card with name, address, photo and signature, available from the local council offices would be acceptable to many now. I do not trust the current Government not to be racist in this matter - the Home Office has a woeful record.

Corcory · 23/10/2017 10:01

Peregrina, You are right about the shambles that has been the home office and the ridiculous situations it got it's self into with the suggestion that some EU citizens be removed. However the quote from Amber Rude is from a session of a parliamentary discussion where they ARE thrashing these things out. Many places which have I.D. cards in the EU have a system where you have a number of different types of possible I.D. such as your passport, so you don't need a special card necessarily. Also you would go to the police station with your I.D. if you don't have it on you just like we do if asked to produce our driving licence. So the idea that we need some expensive I.D. card for everyone might not be needed.

MichaelFabricantsHair · 23/10/2017 10:05

Cocory I love the way your 'phone keeps insisting it's Amber Rude, how apt Grin

Corcory · 23/10/2017 10:11

Ha Ha Ha Michael! I know, can't seem to switch this predictive thing off.

Motheroffourdragons · 23/10/2017 10:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 23/10/2017 10:24

Also you would go to the police station with your I.D. if you don't have it on you just like we do if asked to produce our driving licence.

When you need to produce your driving licence, it's because you have been stopped for some reason and don't have your licence on you. Why should you need to go to the police station if you don't happen to have your card on you? We have been down this route before. The previous war-time/ immediate post war ID cards were abolished after the Govt of the day had been challenged on its being an offence not to carry your ID card.

For what it's worth, DH (a hoarder) still has his, mine was lost years ago, and they both 'expired' in the 1960s anyway. I found DM's card when I was clearing out her house after she died (she was another hoarder), and have kept it as a rather amusing memento. They were blue card for adults, and buff for children up to 16.

RhiannonOHara · 23/10/2017 10:35

Amber Rude Grin

Corcory · 23/10/2017 10:46

Other posters on these threads who live in the EU have said that they are not 'stopped' to be asked to produce their I.D. in the countries they live in. I would think there is a system where you only need to produce it if you are stopped for some other reason in these countries. So another red herring Peregrina

Peregrina · 23/10/2017 10:50

So another red herring Peregrina

Erm, you were the one who initially talked about going to the Police with your ID. As was seen in the past, people were getting stopped, for e.g. suspect motoring offences and asked to produce their ID, when the whole raison d'etre of them had gone. Who is to say the same wouldn't happen now?

Motheroffourdragons · 23/10/2017 10:52

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

MichaelFabricantsHair · 23/10/2017 10:56

I was stopped 15 years ago for a brake light that was out. I had no idea. I was loaded into the back of a police van whilst my two young children were left screaming in the back of my car Sad

I was given a producer and orders instructions to get a signed certificate from a garage mechsnic as proof Id had my light changed, to be brought to the police station within 7 days.

Still to this day wonder why the hell I was treated like that, but I was young at the time and never thought to query it.

I'll stop rambling now, sorry.

Corcory · 23/10/2017 11:01

I was suggesting you go to the police station with your ID in the same way that you do at the moment if stopped and asked to produce your driving licence. Your not stopped at random in this country and asked to show your driving licence. That is the type of system I am suggesting there might be here for id production. Mother, it may be an offence not to carry your id in the country you live in but I have heard that there are countries where you are able to do as I have suggested.