Where do you realistically think we go from here?

[Bearbehind]

So Amber Rudd says 'no deal is unthinkable' and David Davis says the opposite.

DD also says we'd only agree to a transition period if the terms of our deal were known before hand.

The EU are still insisting the 3 priorities are addressed before talks can move to trade so basically we're at a stand off.

Something has to give at some point.

Regardless of what you want to happen, what do you think will actually happen.

I think we will walk away from the talks, all hell will break loose when the repercussions of that come to the fore and we'll end up staying in the EU in some capacity but in a much weaker position than before.

Corcory, it's not clear exactly what you are suggesting. Would you have to produce your ID if stopped for a motoring offence? Would you have to produce your ID if suspected of 'terrorism' - an invitation for perfectly innocent young men of ethnic origin to be stopped for dubious reasons.

I don't think you might have to provide your ID if you were stopped for a motoring offence if you don't have your driving licence on you. You may be used to provide ID as a young person in a night club or pub or trying to buy alcohol. But I am definitely against the old stop and search situation we used to have and feel the police would have to have a really good reason to stop someone on the grounds of terrorism offences. I also think it may be asked for by immigration on raids they do looking for illegal immigrants.

Sorry too many don'ts in the first sentence!! remove the first one and read as - I think you might have to provide your ID

You people are funny.
Plans are there not to always be implemented but in the 'just in case' worse scenario.
The fact that Brits in Spain might have out in place some 'plans' all for that not to be necessary is just showing that. It was to be used in the worst scenario case - what if I can't stay to live in Spain, what if I need to prove x and y etc...
Not doing so shows pain stupidity TBH. And not just about Brexit but about any venture/life. Whatever you do, you are taking risks and it's a pretty good idea to know whether you can cope with the biggest RISKS and their consequences or not (e.g. If you invest £50k on something that has a potentially high return but is also very high risk, you might want to know and plan for the fact you might loose everything you invested).
The same holds true here with Brexit.
Maybe no one will ever need to leave the uk or see much change to their life. Maybe eu citizens will see major changes and be asked to apply for a visa etc or maybe a big part of them will be asked to leave. It sounds reasonable for them to plan for that. Maybe the whole economy is gong to collapse and again it sounds reasonable to plan for that (eg by having an idea of whereelse you can find a job, in the world or by moving any savings into euros or dollars rather than pounds etc...).
I'm sure that no one can tell atm what WILL happen. Even best guess is hard to do.
But saying that you know there is no need to make a pan is just plain foolish. Like closing your eyes whilst walking in a railway line and hoping no train will come whilst you are there.

What are you talking about Lewis?

Lewis's comments make perfect sense - you make plans for the future, and think about both best and worse cases.

Mother, what 'plan' are you expecting re your retired spanish ex-pats? Are you asking, for example, for the UK tax payer to cover the costs of access to NHS available care in the UK, which they have now, and also cover the cost of spanish private healthcare for retirees in Spain? I assume you refer to those living on UK state pensions only? (I think thats who you are refering to, surely youre not refering to the private pensioned?)

Would you find it acceptable, as a 'state pensioner', to lose your current right to NHS care, in return for ongoing Spanish healthcare? For those who went to Spain for example, planning to return to the UK when long term elderly care is required, are you asking for basic healthcare cover to 'follow' you? Or are you asking for both?

Several questions would still need to be answered by the Spanish government. Is it their intention to fully reciprocate the UKs position? But in short, youre asking for a 'cash' commitment for UK ex-pats living in Spain on UK state pensions only, Perhaps we should ask a pensioner in the UK, living on state pension only, for their view.

But EHICs for tourists?

What about EHICs? We want out of the EU, so does it follow that we can stay in something which is an EU scheme? Negotiations about these are part of those tiresome details which still need to be settled. Johnson, by throwing his toys out of the pram and saying 'Go Whistle' hasn't exactly made any helpful contributions to the debate.

Yes Mother, so back to my original response, just extend your request to all pensioners, privately funded and state pension funded only. Id like a UK state pensioners view.

Whether you have a state pension or a state plus private pension (I doubt anyone doesn't have a state pension even if they have a private one!!), doesn't have any relation at all with covering for health care cost whilst living in an EU country.

Not sure why on earth you're making the difference caroline.

Fwiw, an expat will, thanks to reciprocal agreements, be able to access the health care system in an eu country. It has nothing to do with being a pensioner. But everything to do with meeting the requirement of the FOM (aka, working, student, self funding or looking for work).
What shouldn't happen is British pensioners in Spain coming back to the uk and using the NHS. They are not covered as they do not live in the uk anymore. But it seems that few have any issue doing so (by staying registered at their old medical practice or ensuring that they can give a relative address as their address....).

Fwiw, if you are talking about pensions, I would be quite happy to see the end of the free prescription to all pensioners and to replace it with a similar system for 'working people', aka free if you are earning less than £xxx and otherwise you pay whatever fee it is supposed to be.
My parents are pensioners and are still shocked by the system TBH.

As far as pensions are concerned, at the moment state pensions paid to citizens resident in the EU are uprated in line with the ones paid to UK residents. There is no guarantee that will continue after the UK leaves. Don't assume that 'something will be sorted out'. UK citizens resident in e.g. Canada have their pensions frozen to the amount in force when they left the UK, and despite various campaigns to get this altered the Govt. hasn't been prepared to do anything about this. This causes some considerable hardship, but the Govt's answer has so far been 'tough'. I imagine that there are substantially greater numbers of UK pensioners in Spain than there are in Canada.

Lewis it is perfectly possible to have a private pension and no UK state pension entitlement as a UK National living in the UK. eg spend your working life abroad and retire to UK, spend your pre retirement years as a kept spouse.

I think this is the next approaching scandal after WASPI women. The new 35 rule for independent pension entitlement is not well understood and I know several people at risk of no / very little State entitlement.

Although I take the point that pensioner status is kind of irrelevant. Surely the comparison is to replicate current status of existing UK pensioners in Spain in the same way the UK is guaranteeing access to NHS for existing EU nationals in UK with reciprocal costs subject to negotiation as part of Brexit? Any extension of rights to future retirees to Spain would surely be up to the Spanish to decide on and fund?

I know it won't happen but there should be another vote.
I had absolutely no idea what I was voting for (remain) and I guess I'm not the only one!
There should have been more impartial information and less campaign jargon.

Im just on a break, so will pick up later, but to clarify,

"Although I take the point that pensioner status is kind of irrelevant."

I think it is howabout. Is the crux of this question Mother, how do UK retired ex-pats in Spain keep what benefits theyve got now, given theyve now seemingly got the right to remain? Assuming, they dont want more than theyve got now, but they dont want less?

Is that right mother? (It is funny calling you that )

Id taken, that in asking about uninsured retirees, one assumes they are currently uninsured, theres a portion of the ex-pat population who cant access certain services currently and do indeed return to the UK for treatment. Take care homes for example, no reciprocal current arrangements, so you must (as an uninsured) return to the UK if you need state funded long term care.

If Ive got the question wrong, Ill get back to my draining board. I do leap around a lot. Apols.

Found this, claiming to be one of the leaked impact studies.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/526459/Effects_on_pensioners_of_leaving_the_EU.pdf

UK state pensioners living in the EU have their health cover from the S1 form from the UK. This entitles them to the same cover as a national of the country e.g. in France 70% of costs with the rest covered by a personal top-up insurance. The UK government has stated that the S1 will continue after Brexit. I can't think it is in anybody's interests to change that. The UK saves money on pensioners living abroad and the EU countries get the money for health cover.

And UK pensioners who have an S1 form are still entitled to use the NHS.