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Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2017 09:43

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

OP posts:
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BiglyBadgers · 26/08/2017 10:57

In fact not just a bit disgusted, but really very very disgusted. To openly try and discredit critisicm of the Government by saying the person making them is having a mental breakdown is taking low to a new level. Even if he is or was suffering from mental health issues does not mean he was not making valid points or should not be allowed his say on an area he worked in. It is very worrying when members of the Government are gaslighting is such a blatant way and are not called out on it loud and clear. Mental health issues are not a reason to ignore someone's point of view.

missmoon · 26/08/2017 10:59

Bigly Yes, me too, I was very angry about it.

Kaija · 26/08/2017 11:05

I'm also wondering about James Chapman. Did everyone see the tweets from his 2nd Twitter account (now deleted) with the photographs of his bruises?

There was a flurry of tweets from Tory leavers like Nadine Dorries 10 days or so ago implying that he was having a breakdown. No idea whether there is any truth in this or whether it is a smear.

Kaija · 26/08/2017 11:07

Yes, good points, bigly.

Kofa · 26/08/2017 11:24

From Anna Soubry's twiitter:
twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/900982048151801856

"Seems immigration stats were inaccurate; given #Immigration drove #Leave vote isn't the slim (52%) maj for #Brexit further undermined?"

BiglyBadgers · 26/08/2017 11:25

I am also concerned about the impact this may have on other Tory supporters who are considering speaking out against brexit. When you have someone prominent like this who goes against the government and they are then silenced without explanation that is going to scare people. I am no Chapman fan girl, by any stretch, but I had hoped he would open the way for others to oppose the government's plans, I fear that door may be closed.

Kaija · 26/08/2017 11:35

I wouldn't call myself a Chapman fan girl either, but what was interesting was the way that he used the sort of strident combative language that won Leave the referendum, and that we hadn't really seen from remainers. I wondered where it would end up but couldn't have predicted the outcome would be him claiming to be beaten up by Greek officials at the behest of the U.K. Government, then disappearing without trace. Hope it's not as bad as it looks.

HashiAsLarry · 26/08/2017 12:52

I agree miss, it's the surrounding stuff that makes it seem wrong. Many people have breakdowns but they don't get deleted on social media, along with mentions of them.

Never mind it's perfectly possible he is now having a breakdown but wasn't before. Whatever is happening, I feel sorry for his family.

whatwouldrondo · 26/08/2017 13:25

I have a close friend who is bipolar and we know the signs that their mood is becoming unstable. It did therefore strike me that there was an air of grandiosity in his posts, my friend calls her manic phases her bid for world domination, and paranoia is another sign we watch for. However whether or not he is having MH problems nobody should be commenting on it on social media (especially not a trained nurse, even if a narcissist) and especially not in retaliation for what sounded like pretty accurate if not very diplomatic observations. There is something of the bullying norms of a public school dorm about it. The msm should be commenting if only on that......

whatwouldrondo · 26/08/2017 13:32

The unbarmy arms?
www.rt.com/uk/398456-unbrexit-pub-germany-europe/

LurkingHusband · 26/08/2017 14:00

whatwouldrondo

Beat me to it Smile !!!

HashiAsLarry · 26/08/2017 14:21

Very true Ron. Also I forgot to mention that people with mental health problems arent liars by default either. Certain people like Dorries should be highly aware of the stigma people with mental health issues have to live with, without twisting it to their own advantage.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2017 14:36

Unimpressed by the Uk govt - Louth TD (RoI MP) Declan Breathnach:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/light-touch-border-a-brexit-priority-36053803.html

"It will take four years to fix Big Ben yet Britain thinks it can have a unique Brexit in 18 months Grin

Not alone do they believe in the above,
and not alone do they want their cake and eat it
they think that they have the only recipe for that cake,
want to produce the ingredient of their own ,
prepare and bake it in their own bakery
and expect the 27 other EU countries to consume it or take the crumbs from their table
.....
The British Government need to face up to their obligation on citizens rights and equality in their exit bill and but also the Working and integrity of the Good Friday agreement.

In addition ensuring that their actions in no way hinders the fragile peace on these islands.
....
'Therese May needs to categorically accept the need to step up to the plate in providing the matching funding
to both the peace programme funding and Interreg proposed projects in a post Brexit scenario.'"

woman12345 · 26/08/2017 19:07

Sorry, just in, doubling back to what we were talking about earlier.
@tomjcull
James is a friend of mine. He is sound of mind. This is deeply distressing.

woman12345 · 26/08/2017 19:11

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/patriot-prayer-san-francisco-rally-cancelled-dog-poo

Party poopers: rightwing rally cancelled in San Francisco amid dog poo protest

Patriot Prayer cancels Saturday event, citing ‘safety concerns’ and ‘smear campaign’ that branded group as white supremacists

I do like a good poop joke. Can't think of one to go with this^

Plenty of english doggy poop hanging in trees and hedgerows, if necessary. Grin

'turd reich', might be a good name for the new thread?

Knope2020 · 26/08/2017 19:21

Turd Reich

lalalonglegs · 26/08/2017 22:53

Just got back from an evening out and saw this:

Labour opts for long transition period, continued membership of the single market, FoM and ECJ.

Halle-frigging-lujah. A nice positive opener to the new thread?

BestIsWest · 26/08/2017 23:14

Britain Elects

If an election were held today, our model forecasts...

CON: 298 (-19)
LAB: 289 (+27)

See what changes hands:
britainelects.com/2017/08/26/tor…

SwedishEdith · 26/08/2017 23:17

Tim Walker‏Verified account @ThatTimWalker 21m21 minutes ago
More
One insider tells me this is Labour testing the water ahead of full-scale opposition to Brexshit

Starmer tweeted the other day about coming back from his holidays in France. Probably fired him up.

BretonCat · 26/08/2017 23:35

And breathe...

RedToothBrush · 27/08/2017 00:50

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3017105-Westminstenders-Boom-The-Brexit-Backlash-starts-to-hit?watched=1

In the style and words of David Allen Green on Brexit:

WELL....

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 27/08/2017 08:43

‘smear campaign’

mummmy2017 · 29/08/2017 19:01

Big grin: Grin

mummmy2017 · 29/08/2017 19:02

And close, night all

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