Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

[RedToothBrush]

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

Vaguely reminded me of:

You know, deep, deep down, I honestly didn't think any government would allow damage to the City. Despite all of my fears, and my cynicism, a small part of me honestly thought that someone in government would do anything to prevent that. The fact that this hasn't happened, and that the movement has, indeed, begun, is the thing that tells me Brexit is uncontrollable and set to be utterly damaging.

I'm starting to wonder if we are seeing an unpeeling of the alliance of wealth and power in the UK (which are often confused). After all, in the post-1066 history of Britain, it's a relatively new phenomenon. (Remember how, going back, being rich meant nothing if you weren't from the right bloodline ?)

The adulation for Rees-Mogg is suggestive.

If that is the case, it would explain why there's no respect for the City in Brexit. It's just a bunch of nouveau-riche Johnny-come-latelys with their ghastly lack of breeding being put back in their place.

And they thought you could "buy into" the ruling class ????

But Jacob Rees-Mogg's family aren't old money. His father was editor of The Times. As someone remarked on one of these threads, tongue in cheek, he was Trade.

re the David Jones thing, I've posted this link before about paid trolls.

I'm fairly sure a few have been spotted on MN

catfromjapan - yes, I'm stunned too that the Conservatives - who have always made much of how they are the party of business, got to trust them with the economy etc etc - are allowing a sacking of the City. And all those SME business owners who have dutifully dropped a few notes into the local Conservative party hat when asked and sneered at the very idea of a Labour government being able to run the economy, I can't understand why they aren't up in arms and taking to the streets at what is likely to happen to their companies in the next couple of years.

I do wonder if the outcry from business has been limited by a. the strategy that 'complainers' were denied government access b. lack of a platform/unified bloc by means of which to express dissatisfaction.

And it's not as though high-profile businesses can announce they are switching funding to another party, is it? Which is another thing I find utterly amazing about the current political situation. As luck would have it, we have an opposition that is built on shoring the position of its current leader by absolutely vilifying a previous leader's appeal to business. Rightly or wrongly.

I think that a lot of older Tory activists, at the local level, just haven't realised how the party they have supported since the year dot has changed.

... and, of course, that position means that the very obvious political point - that this current government are profoundly damaging UK business interests - is not a point that can be made. And so this huge reality trundles on, without major comment.

Yes, Peregrina. I find that amazing. I've found May's attempts to utilise the analogies between herself and Margaret Thatcher really astonishing. Brexit is not very Thatcher government. And yet I suspect this obvious point sails past a lot of the older conservative supporters.

I've found May's attempts to utilise the analogies between herself and Margaret Thatcher really astonishing.

Except we can dig up footage of Mrs. Thatcher campaigning - quite effectively - for the UK to remain in the EEC. No fool she. Much as she disliked the Brussels way, she also knew it was the only way ahead for the UK.

Although I think Theresa May does not have the vision and imagination to see things outside the narrow perspective of the Maidenhead matron, I don't think she is driven by the class system particularly since she is a Grammar School girl and daughter of a Vicar she would be looked down on herself. She is driven by her narrow views on immigration. She has always put immigration control ahead of business, and specifically the City who have been complaining for years that visa restrictions were detrimental to their ability to recruit the brightest and the best. Vince Cable is reiterating on social media what he has highlighted in the MSM for years

"I spent five years in coalition battling #TheresaMay department’s #bogusfigures on this issue but she responded by erecting a wall of visa restrictions on an entirely false basis.
#CabinetBrexiteers fought a referendum campaign on a flawed prospectus, scapegoating foreign students who weren’t even here, and #demonisingEUcitizens who are now leaving the country voluntarily."

I've found May's attempts to utilise the analogies between herself and Margaret Thatcher really astonishing. Brexit is not very Thatcher government. And yet I suspect this obvious point sails past a lot of the older conservative supporters.

Also despite Mrs Thatcher now being an immortal and beyond criticism (see also Churchill, Winston ), it's worth reminding ourselves that back in 1975, she was elected as the "anybody but Heath candidate" - and she was despised by a lot of Tory grandees. "That bloody woman" rings a bell.

It seems the grain of UK politics is you can either a PM who appeals to the public, or the party. But not both.

More fun :

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/25/ukgov_datasharing_rules_deal_with_eu/

Notice how Brexit logic disintegrates on contact with reality.

Also notice (from the article) :

The Tory-run government argued that the UK “starts from an unprecedented point of alignment with the EU”, and as such that it should seek a deal that goes beyond existing measures the EU has with non-EU nations.

On what planet ??????? The "UK" (in the shape of May et al) has spent the past 7 years pissing all over the idea that the UK shares EU ideals. As repeated ECJ and Supreme Court rulings have found.

"Except we can dig up footage of Mrs. Thatcher campaigning - quite effectively - for the UK to remain in the EEC. No fool she. Much as she disliked the Brussels way, she also knew it was the only way ahead for the UK."

That's what I mean, LurkingHusband. I'm no fan of the Thatcher changes but I can't imagine that government doing this!

Also, where does this fiction that the Tories are the party of business come from ?

The Tories are the party formed to keep Catholics out of power. (Rees-Mogg would do well to learn some history).

That quote from Vince Cable is quite worrying, ron. It suggests (or rather supports what I think many of us fear) that there is a deep-rooted idiocy wrt immigration, rather than simple cynicism or incompetence, propelling May's stance on Brexit.

But Jacob Rees-Mogg's family aren't old money. His father was editor of The Times. As someone remarked on one of these threads, tongue in cheek, he was Trade.

. He's also not old English Catholic. His Catholicism comes from his Irish-American grandmother. So, his Brideshead fantasies are just that, fake.

Wigmore is vile on Twitter - "I'm a diplomat, you bellend" type stuff.

Last night I was followed by a Russian bot. When I looked at its followers there was one with exactly the same (stolen from FB or LinkedIn, usually) photo. .

cat Cable has been quite specific about the damage May caused to the education and finance sectors. This article is about the way she obstructed a free trade deal with India because she refused to grant visas to skilled Indian IT workers. It is almost Trumpesque in the degree of psychological dysfunction and lack of logic in her judgement

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/17/theresa-may-obsessed-with-controlling-immigration-says-vince-cable?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

LH belushi. Joe Walsh recently on Stephen Colbert with Belushi anecdote.

Philippe Sands: ‘We are citizens of the world – we need a global passport

On the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, the professor of law calls for an end to the ‘absurd, monopoly power’ of the national passport

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/25/reformation-2017-philippe-sands-passport

Many hard right Tory business donors lobbied hard for the "bonfire of red tape" which they think will increase their profits more than any loss in trade.

i.e. drastically cutting workers' rights, health & safety, environmental protection, consumer rights etc

Both business donors and the superwealthy are keen on the lower tax regime for business and the wealthy, which they think an "Ukltra" Brexit will make necessary, whichever party forms govt over the next decade or so

The Single Market was MrsT's brainchild
The only aspect she tried to prevent was the social chapter, rights etc which were added by other EU members much to her disgust

She was also the one who pushed for the various Regional Aid budgets, because the UK was one of the poorest countries when it joined

That is a sobering article, woman. Interesting how he says he is less worried about the US that the UK. Well Britain really. NI has since it's inception had dubious relationship between elements of it's statehood.

Isn't it amazing about the Regional Aid budgets and Thatcher. Wales has lots of very fringe land quality. Receives extra to compensate for this. And still out. It has to be a lack of awareness/publicising about how the EU was responsible for the policy of distribution to the fringes. I'd say they could go sing for it after Brexit. The Brexiteers sold a pup and the clients are looking at it like it is a great bit Rottweiller.

One of the more bizarre shifts in the Overton window is that suddenly Thatcher is looking more and more like a good thing, now that we can no longer take for granted a modern global economy or that those who govern us are competent and focused on its maintenance.... Particularly weird for me given how much of my 80s career, (and study come to that given I was at business School in the year leading to the big bang) was focused on turning her economic supertanker a degree or two.....