The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

Bear I felt physically ill on the 24th of June; I disabled my Faceboook account for a few weeks as I couldn't stand to see the heated arguments unfolding, it was awful. I certainly wasn't cheering and celebrating that my vote went the right way, almost 50% of people around me were upset at the result. It set my anxiety off big time, I'm a sensitive soul and I was genuinely sad at the divisions I saw. The minute it dawned on me there was No Fucking Plan, the old adrenaline started pumping and it spoiled my DD's prom for me because I was so worried about it all! I do have anxiety issues though, as you can probably tell

I'll won't be holding my breath for UK grown bent carrots (what is it with bent food items??!) because they'll be shitting dear. Why? Wages demanded by UK workers. Of course.

I only brought up racism, Caroline, because the Trump link was brought in earlier in the thread. Only a simpleton believes racism was the one and only issue in Brexit. There was a combination of issues and certainly the racist card was there in broad daylight. That's why the UK alt-right and Nazi brigade have been emboldened in the UK (as they have in the US of course). Or are you denying that?

Rufus, I'm convinced that a good third of leave and remain voters were just waverers - not too bothered either way. My sis was that and on the day decided to vote out. The problem is there is a before and after. Now the result is known, those division hardened. Now DSis wants hard brexit +++ totally forgetting that she was actually not bothered strongly either way by the EU before the ref. That is why I blame Cameron for his ego-trip: the ref was his bid to unite the Tories. Go for three, why not, he arrogantly told himself. The divisions on this thread are just a mirror for the country and will take a generation to heal.

Exactly Rufus, this Good Vs Bad narrative that seems to set the tone, over a referendum that was a simple in or out. Not that there's been anything simple about it but the majority of voters I like to think were just doing what they thought was best with what was a very complex issue.

Flatpack, you may be peddling backwards, but if youre going to say this, "Only a simpleton believes racism was the one and only issue in Brexit." you have to answer my question.

Did you see the Brexit referendum as a racist referendum? And that the question was a racist question?

Considering youve come ploughing in here, calling us 'disgusting', either it was or it wasnt.

Perhaps youd like to re-phrase your post to 'immigration'? If you did, you wouldnt be feeding the rise of the alt-right.

We don't currently import many carrots, except for in May and June. There also aren't many bendy carrots going to waste as they work just fine in ready meals etc. What I struggle to get my head around is why the Netherlands produce so many agricultural exports when they are so short of land?

Top fruit imports are bananas from South America. Next on the list are apples and oranges and there is a lot of scope for arbitrage between current African and European suppliers depending how Brexit pans out. I much prefer South African oranges and Granny Smith apples to their Spanish and French alternatives and I can still remember when sanctions were first introduced.

We do import potatoes but we also export almost as many.

www.pma.com/~/media/pma-files/research-and-development/unitedkingdom.pdf?la=en

www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/aug/05/brexit-uk-fruit-vegetables-africa-kenya

I hate bananas, straight or bendy

Before anyone pulls me up I know that it's a myth that the EU dictate banana curvature!

Was talking in the pub this lunchtime, this year a farmer friend of mine decided to set asaid fields for summer veg production, something he hasn't done before and made it organic, he then went to the local school and ask the children who would be able to work, if they would like weekend and summer jobs.
The kids have help build tunnels, planted seedlings, weeded the plants, as organically means they have more manual work involved which is easy to do even if it does take time, The kids have become a real team,
Lots turned up and he employed them all as the summer has gone on some have left, some have had holidays but he does have a work force, some even came and asked for their jobs back as they missed the money, he is waiting to see how profitable it was.
But one thing it did show was that there was a work force available, who didn't have jobs for cash between school , collage and uni.
Some of these kids will be doing professional jobs once they qualify, and 6 of the boys have begged him to hold their jobs for when they come home next summer from uni.

Jesus Christ mummy this is an entire country, not an episode of The Good Life.

Fruit picking was one of the regular summer jobs students would go for when I was younger. A farmer near me - in Scotland- has just put in several acres of green houses to grow tomatoes. He has been very successful. As the modern green houses are much more efficient. Even the local Aldi have been stocking them ! We need more of this.
Green houses would work equally well in industrial areas as well as on farms.

Michael - loved your qualifier (genuine lol - I'm having to qualify the qualifier - shit this is a touchy thread).

Caroline - let me explain to you in great detail what I've already said in answer to your question. Read carefully as I won't be repeating myself again. The ref was about more than just racism. But racism was in there. Of the racists who voted, none voted to remain (I have no proof, of course, this in an inference). I only mentioned the R word in passing reference to Trump and Milo. You and others got worked up over the R word (I then fanned the flames by saying you/others were getting terribly sensitive to the R word - Michael has no problem as he's quite happy in his own skin he isn't a racist). You then very deliberately abused the meaning of my words to say I was accusing everyone who voted out as racist. Anything else to add? Oh yes. And the result of the ref has had a real effect on racism in the UK. I have friends in a RG uni - lecturers - they have suffered hate speech in the aftermath of the vote, and recount stories of many of their students suffering similar. Was the ref about racism? Not only. But it formed an important part of the campaign. Many people voted on their racist beliefs. And the result has been an increase in racism and hate speech. I hope that is clear for you.

I don't think any of us get worked up over the racist claims ( I certainly don't ) the term gets thrown around so often on here that no one takes much notice.

Bearbehind you can't have it both ways.
Either we produce more food and cut the imports or we import it all.
If 10 farms in every county did this, do you not think the knock on effect would be greater production over all in the country.
Do you have any idea how many children would love a Saturday job or summer job and can't find one, kids are lazy as there is nothing to do and if you offer them something to do many will willingly take you up on the offer.
These are not jobs for a working wage but for pin money to give children self respect and a work ethic, so wind your neck in and realize that lots of little projects can equal a success on a larger scale.

I find FOM a racist concept. In that it is very biased concept because it gives Europeans - mainly white Christian - an advantage over people of other ethnic origins and other countries in the world. I would like to see any one from where ever they come, have equal parity when it comes to their ability to immigrate to the UK or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.

I agree Cocory but I'm not convinced this rotten government will be making anything fairer to those from outside the EU any time soon.

I find FOM a racist concept. In that it is very biased concept because it gives Europeans - mainly white Christian - an advantage over people of other ethnic origins

Golly. That would put you at loggerheads with some of your fellow Leave voters who, upthread, were pretty clear on the menace of immigration of particular groups who apparently are coming in in droves from the EU, and the vital necessity of flinging ourselves out of the EU forthwith to avoid said immigration swamping us.

Fruit and veg farmers facing migrant labour shortages

there simply aren't the people available to do the work, added to which UK people tend to want permanent year-round work and this is seasonal work.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40354331

Elements - I didn't say I wanted FOM for everybody. I want controls but for it to be same no matter where you come from.

Enlightening stuff from the Arms this evening;

• Get school kids to pick fruit - perhaps they could skip school entirely and do it full time?
• Too much attention is paid to racism - nothing to see here, move along.
• We should invite everyone from around the world to emigrate to the UK. Just overloook curbing immigration being a key tenet of the leave campaign.

GhostofFrankGrimes did you ever have a part time job as a child, and did you like the money?
Such a shame to never see a positive in anything, you must be a real crap person to have over for dinner, if your always like this.

Of the racists who voted, none voted to remain

This utter bollocks is still trotted out I see.

You missed out the bananas Frank, you bananaist.

There are a lot on MN who balk at the idea of teenagers doing work mummy - especially fruit picking etc.

Ghost, if you read the whole article you will see that there used to be a Seasonal workers system that brought in workers from all over the world so my suggestion that we should get workers from all over stands.