Where is the next Brexit Arms thread?

[Valentine2]

I have been waiting for two days patiently. Can't wait anymore.
Kindly bring it back Surfer.
No matter what we discuss or don't discuss there, this discussion must keep going.

I'm not sure it is random, I fear it is our over inflated sense of entitlement and arrogance which continues to make us think we can have everything we want.

You mean like having our cake and eating theirs?

Yes- And not getting fat too!

Ah - magic cake then.

Was having an animated conversation on the last Brexit Arms thread about fruit picking. According to leavers all would be good. This popped up today;

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/24/food-and-drink-industry-eu-staff-exodus-brexit-damage-economy

The National Farmers’ Union has also said the number of seasonal workers coming to the UK this year had dropped by 17%. It blamed the lack of clarity on the future for EU workers and a drop in the value of sterling.

Maybe the Brexit Arms is so quite these days because the regulars are signing up for farm jobs?

"Frank* One Leaver suggested all would be good regarding fruit picking. Don't tar us all with the same sticky jam spoon

Shame the leavers have thrown in the towel with the brexit arms no doubt blaming remainers for spoiling their party. Reminds me of Trump when he blames fake news on anything that challenges his policies.

There were some interviews in the Guardian yesterday with Trump supporters being asked how they thought things were going. The whole tenor was '"he's not racist, both sides were wrong in Charlottesville." Some people will not see the evidence in front of them.

Frank, I was the person who suggested solutions to the seasonal workers problems we may have. As I said before there was a Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme in the past which brought workers here from all over the world. So that may well be one of the solutions to the problem.
I don't really have a need to be on these threads all the time unless I see something I have a thought on.
As for Trump - don't tar us all with the same brush - I have never been a fan of Trump. From the very first time I saw him on TV in a documentary made by Selena Scott 20 or 30 years ago I thought he was a complete arse.

Cocory sorry, I was thinking of mummy who seemed to locking horns and spinning round in circles (sorry mummy!).

Oddly enough she's not been seen since...Frank? Do you know anything about this?

Trump makes me feel physically sick; he's a horrible excuse of a human. Or as Alan Partridge would say, scum, subhuman scum.

The old SAWS seemed to work pretty well (last one closed in 2013) - trouble is that the Government needs to pull its finger out to instigate a new one pronto so that farmers can plan how to get the 80,000 seasonal workers needed.

Interesting debate on it all from Hansard here.

Very interesting Random. Thanks for the link. Good to see that they are discussing this in Parliament and that they aren't just sitting around 'without a plan' as so many remainers try to suggest - Bear!
Good to here from another leaver with a deep hate of Trump too!

That was a cross-party committee though Corcory - it still has to get the minister (Gove!) to listen and get on board.

It's also more than a year since the Referendum, so they are not exactly rushing, are they?

The words 'listen' and 'on board' followed by Gove don't fill me with much confidence. His utter incompetence and back peddling over fishing rights said it all.

It is going to be difficult to disassociate Brexit and Trump. So many similarities.The taglines "make America great again" and "take back control." The nationalistic tone and the scapegoating of groups whether Mexicans or eastern europeans. Two campaigns run predominately by rich white men masquerading as friends of the working classes. The notion that the campaigns would regenerate once proud areas whether Detroit or Sunderland. The close relationship of Farage and Trump. The same brand of populism that was supposed to send a political earthquake across the world and break liberalism.

Even I believed the wider claims of Brexit e.g "sovereignty" there is no way I would want to be associated with the isolationist tone and the jingoism.

Farmers considering moving to Poland. Going well then

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/uk-farmers-poland-farms-business-brexit-leave-eu-eastern-europe-union-migrant-workers-a7860456.html

Theyll get a shock when the locals refuse to be paid 2.50 an hour......

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fruit-pickers-the-money-we-earn-is-not-worth-getting-out-of-bed-for-1740216.html

Caroline - That's just disgraceful. How does that company expect to keep workers and only give them 4 hours work a day? If they need workers surely they need to get fewer and give the ones that they have full time hours. Just stupid.

Caroline's article is eight years old - from 2009.

What the 'locals' are prepared to work for will depend on how many of them are (or become in the future) reliant on job seekers allowance, since the sanctions regime, even in its current form, will force them to accept this work or lose up to six months of benefits.

At least we now have an improved minimum wage, but the new Director of 'Labour Market Enforcement' is going to have his work cut out post brexit protecting the more vulnerable 'locals' (those on jsa or the state pension) from exploitation in our brave new world.

Employers like short hours contracts because it keeps the wages below the trigger threshold at which they need to think about benefits like pensions auto enrolment, Ssp, maternity pay etc. It makes economic sense to use lots of short contracts if the role is entirely routinised, the worker has few choices and software makes it easy to summon them and calculate their wages down to the millisecond. It also keeps workers quiet and on their toes.

That's why we need unions.

Very little has changed Figment, apart from EU wide efforts to hide the abuse, which today is worse than 2009.

17th August 2017,

"In its annual campaign against labour exploitation for 2017, the National Commission warned job seekers to be especially cautious of offers of seasonal work in Swedish fruit picking and agriculture."

www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/romania-bulgarians-at-great-risk-of-modern-slavery-experts-warn-08-16-2017

But hey, the gang masters may move out of the UK. Shock? Clearly the business model is based on low wage disposable people, not the commodity. Or are they digging up the UK fields too and transporting them?

Meant to add the original link.

"Modern slavery risks have risen in nearly three quarters of the 28 member states of the European Union over the last year, " Aug 2017

maplecroft.com/portfolio/new-analysis/2017/08/10/20-eu-countries-see-rise-modern-slavery-risks-study/