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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:01

Is it a soft Brexit looking more and more likely.
Am I right in thinking the dup and Scottish Tories would prefer and soft Brexit?

I initially thought that.

I'm now at the point where I think the Tories are incapable of any coherent strategy which doesn't involve driving over the cliff of the deadline either through their own stupidity, because they can't agree things or they simply either run out of time or bitch the job through incompetence.

Honestly? Either hope for a miracle or a new GE asap. Not that I want one and not that I think the outcome will necessarily be any better.

Right now noises from Yvette Cooper, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen are the best we have. I can't work out whether noises from Corbyn are about a coalition with the left or - and this will sound ridiculous - some kind of agreement with the Conservatives!

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borntobequiet · 10/06/2017 09:04

Re: Brexit - the EU, which understands the Irish situation far better than the UK government - and unlike them, actually cares - will I hope make this even more of a sticking point for any so called "deals" - how I hate and detest the terminology we are obliged to use here - than it has already.
Ireland was always the inevitable disaster to do with Brexit. Now it's been made worse.

howabout · 10/06/2017 09:04

It's 13 Scottish Conservatives - we already had Fluffy Smile. Ruth doing exactly what Scotland wants and needs and speaking up for us within the ruling Westminster Party. Kezia does the same and it gives the big fat lie to the SNP claiming standing apart somehow gives Scotland any say.

Nyx · 10/06/2017 09:06

Lol Elena! Love it Grin

whatwouldrondo · 10/06/2017 09:12

Who would want to, or more to the point could work effectively, in this environment

"May's key aides were toxic streetfighters, says former No 10 spin doctor

Katie Perrior
Katie Perrior
Katie Perrior, a former Downing Street director of communications, has given an extraordinary account of working with Theresa May’s chiefs of staff Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy, whose operation she branded “toxic”.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Perrior said May’s office was “was pretty dysfunctional”.

I do want to say Mrs May has some real qualities and she’s a good person. I feel really bad for her today because yes she takes responsibility for this as she will because she has a real sense of public service and duty that runs right through her.

But at the same time I do feel quite sorry for her personally because it’s a tough environment.

Asked why May was not able to operate without advisers like Hill and Timothy, she said:

Being in the Home Office for such a long time with that being her top team she became accustomed to that being it. Of course, running the Home Office is very different from running the country.

Trying to make that change to Number 10 was more difficult than she possibly anticipated. I used to wonder why because actually she needed to broaden her circle of advisers, she needed to have a few grey hairs in there who have been around the block a bit, who could say don’t do that, don’t make enemies when you don’t need to.

Perrior described the fearful atmosphere with Hill and Timothy in morning meetings with the PM.

We were going to an 8.30 meeting every morning at Theresa May’s office and the atmosphere would be great if the chiefs of staff were not there and terrible if the chiefs of staff were there.

We would be able to speak freely if they weren’t around and if they were around you don’t speak.

In one conversation around the time of the Copeland by-election with a political director, Hill was at the back of the room “bellowing out why aren’t you doing this, why aren’t you doing more”, Perrior said, prompting a “rare” intervention from the PM. Perrior said:

Most of the time we would sit there and often and hear Fiona come up with ideas that were quite frankly crazy and we’d say nothing. But when they weren’t in the room it was a much better free flowing conversation with some brilliant people.

Perrior agreed that Hill and Timothy bullied cabinet ministers.

There was not enough respect shown to epople who spent 20 years in office or 20 years getting to the top seat in Government. They would send people text messages - rude text messages - which is not acceptable.

What the prime minister needs at a time that you’re going through Brexit is diplomats not street-fighters. They only really know one way to operate - and that is to have enemies and I’m sure I’m one of them this morning.

Asked why she left after 10 months, Perrior said:

Every month that went past I felt I’ve done pretty well for holding on because it was pretty toxic.

Perrior said she was close to leaving the post but Hill effectively told her she had no place in the team."

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 09:12

Thanks red . Have to say, that like prettybird's dh I'm concerned about sectarian troubles spreading across the country during marching season and this DUP deal. There are cross kippers with crosser fellow travellers. Paul Nuttells ex of the ukips's parting speech referred to their role as 'attack dogs' and Farage can't leave gun metaphors alone either. What math was saying earlier is pertinent. Totalitarians often get others to do some of the work for them.

I really hope the lovely, over stretched police are able to keep a close eye on them over the coming months.

Everything we've been posting for months about the dodgy Leave campaign funding, links to apartheid and the DUP, will become more publicly discussed too with this tory/DUP deal.

Hoping too that Labour can maintain the 10-16% swing they achieved in local very tory constituencies. Not unseating the tories..........yet.
I suspect Ruth Davidson has just saved several labour seats in Scotland.
After a few more weeks of May's shambles, the tory party will be not just toxic but dangerously shambolic.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 10/06/2017 09:14

There are so many points of weakness in this pact with the DUP I really think May would be lucky to reach October.

Recess for the house starts 21st July. Returns on 5th September then Tory party conference is 1st October

I would have thought that IF the DUP holds til then the Tory will want to be crowning a new leader for conference. Then shortly after another GE

Mays job is to start the Brexit talks and limp til then. The other parties will hopefully as PP said be sorting pacts in marginal to destroy the Tories

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 10/06/2017 09:15

Re soft Brexit question

I initially thought that Grin

I'm now at the point where I think the Tories are incapable of any coherent strategy which doesn't involve driving over the cliff Sad

This is all so depressing.

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 09:16

Totally agree...Sheer incompetence driving everything at the moment.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:18

But the negotiations don't require majority support until the deal is finalised and brought back for a vote in parliament.

May's plan all depends on parliament passing the Great Repeal Act too.

She might do all the negotiations and present it to the HoC at the eleventh hour expecting them to pass it effectively with a gun to their head.

The GRA is rather more complex. Whilst May might ultimately try the same strategy it won't work because of the level of detail it requires. Any attempt to force this through in haste or against the wishes of the opposition and the laws and you risk the law effectively imploding through contradicting itself. Not only this but it's also a huge constitutional change which hands power to the executive. Without it being limited this is highly dangerous. It makes it potentially resemble the Enabling Act in 1930s Germany because of the Henry VIII powers it contains.

This is one of the reasons some people are very alarmed about everything going on. Few people realise what the Great Repeal Bill is and what it tries to do and what power it gives to the executive to implement Brexit. This is the type of stuff that should have been discussed during the Election Campaign in order to have a proper public debate over 'what next'. The fact there is almost complete silence on the subject is disturbing. I think Labour are complicit in this because of their lack of willingness to talk about Brexit because their own strategy is flawed and there is wide division within their own party about it.

Expect the Lords to make a stink like you've never seen before over this one. The Bill if passed at gun point in a form that is unpalatable could render them obsolete anyway in practice.

If May doesn't know this or doesn't understand this, then we are in big trouble anyway. My suspicion from how she works is that she just doesn't care. It's mind blowing.

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everthibkyouvebeenconned · 10/06/2017 09:19

I suspect the Grand Repeal Act is toast. She won't have time before recess or after before the Tories put her in the stocks

They are ruthless

NancyWake · 10/06/2017 09:22

I'm not sure about this idea that DUP want a soft Brexit.

As far I can see they want a hard Brexit with a soft border, a non sequitur.

annandale · 10/06/2017 09:22

Irrelevant detail but i do think adjectives to name laws are wrong, even if unofficial. Great Repeal Act my arse.

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 09:25

Trump offers 'warm support' to Theresa May
Trump could continue to be very useful to illustrate what the tories really are. He's got to be good for another few seats in the autumn GE.

I wonder if May thinks that the electorate are traitors too, that would seem to be the gist of her actions/speech now.

whatwouldrondo the Hill/Timothy cult described in that article also reveal a very isolated PM. Again, this is the danger of the diminution of collegiate cabinet collective responsibility.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:31

I really think May would be lucky to reach October.

If the Tory party let her reach Monday they demonstrate how they are complicit in this and are putting the party before country.

I think they are doing the 'we can moderate/persuade her' thinking now instead naively thinking they can. May isn't like that. She doesn't do cooperative stuff. Certainly if Hill and Timothy don't go then it won't happen and it demonstrates the weakness of the cabinet in standing up to May.

May by rushing to the palace put the cabinet in a difficult position. She asked the queen for permission to form a government. It's since transpired this was perhaps rather premature. It was a desperate act of self preservation.

If it all falls through now, I'm not sure what the constitutional implications are.

I not sure alternatives are any less crackers.

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WeakAndUnstable · 10/06/2017 09:33

Not sure if already mentioned but twitter going wild over rumour that condition for giving their support to Tories, DUP are insisting reduction in abortion time limit for all women in UK.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:33

Irrelevant detail but i do think adjectives to name laws are wrong, even if unofficial. Great Repeal Act my arse.

I made a point of reference to it to the 'Great' Repeal Act for a long time but got fed up of the effort of tying it!

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:33

Typing*

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everthibkyouvebeenconned · 10/06/2017 09:35

Well I think it could be time for another Women's march!

lalalonglegs · 10/06/2017 09:36

In order to survive Conference - which is the obvious place to sort out a successor - May will have to pray that her partners in the DUP behave themselves over the next few months. Between now and then, that means trying to get Stormont up and functioning, revelations as the Cash for Ash inquiry grinds on and the Conservative party has to pray that the Loyalists don't feel emboldened by the DUP's new leverage to cause trouble during the marching season. The whole arrangement is so precarious, so reliant on people who have acted monstrously in the past behaving pragmatically and thoughtfully, what are the odds on it lasting?

ron I heard that interview. It made Downing Street sound like the court of the Borgias but I did wonder what TM gets out of having those two around her.What is it that she thinks they bring to the party - they clearly have extreme and, arguably, flawed political outlooks, they are incapable of building alliances it seems, they have distanced TM from her cabinet. What is it that she likes or needs from them?

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 09:37

If May's Brexit plan was anything like her manifesto, very relieved to have a hung parliament. Something saner may prevail.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 09:38

I wanted a Tory majority to stay the same, or reduce, to underline May's incompetence.
A hung parliament was my #2 choice, even knowing that could mean Tory-DUP.
Since the referendum vote was Leave, all choices have just been trying to choose the least catastrophic.
So civil society & economy could survive long enough for us to have better choices.

With a big Tory majority, May intended to force through what would have been either WTO or more likely disorderly Brexit.

The wasted time of a GE makes disorderly Brexit more likely

  • the arrogant May deliberately invoked A50 before the GE, instead of promising to do it on day 1 of a new Parliament.

However, atm I still think an EEA / EFTA Brexit is more likely, because that's the only way the DUP can achieve their (and NI) requirement for no hard border for goods.

A hard border is the most important issue, that would wreck the GFA and seriously risk a return to violence.
So a party committed to avoiding that is a (hold nose) plus that Ken, Ruth & co can use

There is no chance of any DUP bible-bashing policies being rolled out to rUK - and there was anyway never much chance either of NI being dragged out of the 19th century in that respect
So, I'm thinking (much smaller scale obv) moral equivalent of using Stalin to fight Hitler

Remembering previous minority / tiny majority govts where DUP votes were critical, this involved a lot of shamelessly extravagant extra public spending in NI.
The DUP - unless they've changed a lot - have their snouts firmly in the public trough and I'd be surprised if they support cuts for the rUK.

RuthD having a lot more clout is one really positive aspect:
I suspect the Torygraph article is from "anonymous" Scottish Tories and / or rUK Tory Remainers.
However, she definitely has more power to push for EEA / EFTA
With an Irish Catholic fiancee, she'll be watching the DUP like a hawk

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 09:39

I suspect the Grand Repeal Act is toast. She won't have time before recess or after before the Tories put her in the stocks

Any kind of Brexit that takes us out of European agencies or the ECJ requires the 'Great' Repeal Act or a variation of. A bill lesser magnitude shouldn't take less than two years to pass properly. Because of the number of things it gives effect to it will get more time in the Lord's than anything else but we are already at the point where it will be a rush job. It should have been set in motion months ago to met a50 deadline.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 09:40

Most important, for the next 20-30 years of UK politics, is that the Tories MUST own Brexit and its consequences

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 09:40

Ooh reduction in abortion time limits you say?
Pretty sure TM was pro that last time it came up. Need to double check though.

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