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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
Eeeeeowwwfftz · 11/06/2017 22:03

Even the BBC news anchor couldn't say 'Theresa May intends to serve a full term' with a straight face.

Though the longer she stays in, the better it is for Labour.

HesterThrale · 11/06/2017 22:15

If Gove alienates the farmers like he did the teachers...
He called the teaching profession 'the blob'. I wonder what disparaging name he can think of for farmers?

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 22:20

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2952373-Westministenders-The-Zombie-PM?watched=1

Since its page 39 and I don't know what time I will be on in the morning, new thread already up.

OP posts:
woman12345 · 11/06/2017 22:21

BBC is even weaponising punctuation.Grin
Cabinet reshuffle: Theresa May praises Tory 'talent'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40241229

abilockhart · 11/06/2017 22:27

It's pretty obvious putting Michael Gove in the cabinet is a sop to the DUP.

Gove wrote a pamphlet in 2000 called Northern Ireland: the Price of Peace in which he compared the agreement to the appeasement of the Nazis in the 1930s and the condoning of the desires of paedophiles which went down well with the more extreme elements of the DUP.
www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/111220142628-thepriceofpeace2000MichaelGove.pdf

Following the Brexit vote farmers in Northern Ireland expressed concerns about losing £260m (€295m) in payments from Europe. But now, with the DUP propping up the Tories with Gove as their lackey, things are looking much better for farmers in Northern Ireland. They will be the one group protected in Brexit.

Sostenueto · 11/06/2017 22:38

Finally back on mumsnet playing up on mobile. Choc lol! Love the cartoon!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 22:53

(Telegraph paywall) Rethink hard Brexit plan – we could sink it, Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson warns Theresa May

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/10/rethink-hard-brexit-plan-could-sink-scottish-tory-leader-ruth/

"Ruth Davidson on Saturday raised the prospect of her new group of Scottish Tory MPs torpedoing a hard Brexit
as Theresa May found herself trapped between her party’s Leave and Remain supporters."

Pressed if they would oppose a hard Brexit, Ms Davidson said she would put a deal that prioritised the economy and free trade over restricting immigration
“at the heart of what I’m after” from Mrs May.

She also argued the Conservatives now have no choice but to try and reach a compromise with other parties if they are to get Brexit through the Commons.

The hugely enlarged Scottish Tory group, which has more MPs than the DUP, is pivotal to the Conservatives remaining in power.

The Daily Telegraph disclosed on Saturday that Ms Davidson’s aides are working on a deal that would see the Scottish party break away to form a separate organisation.

Although the Scottish Tory leader initially denied the report,
the party later issued a statement that
“we will be taking time over the next few months to assess how we go forward.”

Although she confirmed they would also take the UK party whip, she said:
“I’ve got a scenario because I know these 13 pretty well that they will vote entirely as they believe that they should.”

Pressed if they would vote to stay in the single market, which would mean accepting freedom of movement,
Ms Davidson said Mrs May’s plan to withdraw and negotiate a free trade deal would now have to be revisited.

Speaking in Stirling, one of the dozen seats the Tories won from the SNP, she said:
“What’s really clear is that the Conservative Party, having failed to win a majority, now needs to work with others.

“And that means that we can look again at what it is we want to achieve as we leave the European Union
and I want to be involved in those discussions.”

She said the Tories now
“have to listen to other actors and agents”
and argued that was “quite healthy as we move towards consensus for this country for Brexit”.

Outlining her demand for an “open Brexit” that prioritises free trade over restricting immigration, she said:

“That’s about making sure that we tear down barriers rather than put them up.
It’s about making sure we put free trade and economic advancement at the heart of the Brexit deal as leave.”

But Ms Davidson emphasised that the deal had to protect the 200-nautical-mile border for Britain’s waters so “we get a good deal for our fishermen.”

This could theoretically mean the so-called ‘Norway model’ whereby the UK joins the European Free Trade Association and the European Economic Area.

This would give access to the single market but means Britain stays out of the Common Fisheries Policy.

Alistair Burt, the MP for North East Bedfordshire:
“If we go into the negotiations with a wider group of people involved, who represent the majority in parliament, in a way the UK can claim its position is strengthened because you are representing much more of a consensuses view.

“I think hopefully it kills off the confrontation rhetoric that we’ve seen- we’ve had enough of that.
The fact, frankly, that there’s been a bloodied nose administered here is probably not a bad thing.”

annandale · 11/06/2017 23:07

I'm not sure about that Pink. We did have a nightmarish civil war, and then we cut off the king's head with an axe after all. Then our new leader went on a horrific colonial/genocidal rampage in Ireland. Then we turned the dead king into a martyr saint - a saint! - and then we brought back his son and tried to pretend the whole thing had never happened. And then we had a horrific plague. And then the entire capital city burned down, very slowly. And then we decided to get more involved in the whole colonial thing because let's face it, staying at home didn't seem so great. Ever since then we have tried to export any problems we had, while pretending that the world was demanding our presence constantly, and it was such a strain fulfilling their demands all the time.

In the same way, joining the EU was something Britain spent fifteen years trying to do, but which we have pretended ever since was done under duress. Britain is infinitely good at fooling itself. No idea why. Maybe it's the irony thing.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 23:09

(telegraph paywall) In office, but not in power: Enemies circle Theresa May as she becomes a sitting duck

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/10/office-not-power-enemies-circle-theresa-may-becomes-sitting/
Theresa May was left isolated and undermined on Saturday night

The Prime Minister has been told by Cabinet ministers she must overhaul her leadership style and change her economic policy if she wants to remain in power.

Protecting British business during Brexit talks and handing over more money to the Foreign Office have also been named as the price for Cabinet support.

The demands came as Mrs May made a flurry of calls in an attempt to stay in Number 10 ...

The tactic has worked in the short term, with senior Tories willing to serve amid fears another election could let Jeremy Corbyn into Number 10.

Figures at the very top of the party now believe she cannot remain leader for long, with some calling for a replacement by the time of the party’s conference in October.

“This was utterly self-inflicted and completely unavoidable. Her credibility is completely shot at home and abroad,” said a minister.

“I can’t see her continuing in the job – her going is completely unavoidable.
She can’t avoid resigning and triggering a leadership election, quite soon,” said one minister.

....But an unofficial race to replace her was already underway as allies of Boris Johnson and David Davis talked up their credentials and briefed against the other.

One ally of Mr Johnson said: “Tonnes of people have reached out to him since the election – cabinet ministers, backbenchers.
They are saying he is the only one who can lead now.

“David Davis is too old school and pushed for the early election. Grin
We lost our best hope last time and don’t want to lose it again this time.”

A source close to Mr Davis questioned said they believed he would stand for the Tory leadership it became available and questioned Mr Johnson’s suitability for the job. Grin

However spokesmen for both men denied any suggestion they were on maneuvers and suggested they are “completely” behind Mrs May. Grin < of course they are >

mathanxiety · 11/06/2017 23:14

Here is the significance of the Portadown Orange Order comment:

www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2017/04/21/news/loyal-order-portadown-parade-avoids-nationalist-areas-1003159/
A LOYAL order parade through Portadown next month to mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant reformation is set to avoid nationalist areas.

In the past, the town has been at the centre of a bitter parades dispute that saw the Orange Order banned from travelling through the mainly nationalist Garvaghy Road district two decades ago.

The parade, which is being jointly organised by the Orange Order and Royal Black Institution, has been organised to mark the 500th anniversary of the Protestant reformation, which was instigated by Martin Luther in October 1517.

Members of the Apprentice Boys, Association of Loyal Orange Women of Ireland, Independent Orange Institution, Grand Royal Arch Purple Chapter and Junior Association are also expected to take part in the parade.

The Co Armagh town has been at the centre of parade disputes for decades.

Orangemen have been banned from marching along Obin Street since 1985 and Garvaghy Road since 1998.

The same year loyalists killed three Catholic children, Richard Quinn (11) Mark Quinn (9) and Jason Quinn (7) in Ballymoney, Co Antrim, in a fire bomb attack linked to the Garvaghy Road dispute.

The last time the main order walked on Garvaghy Road was in 1997, at the height of the Drumcree crisis.

Despite the passing of two decades, the order continues to apply to the Parades Commission to walk through the nationalist district each week.

Next month's parade, which will involve more than 38 bands, will end in a religious service at Shamrock Park in the town.

SDLP assembly member Dolores Kelly said "we recognise people's right to parade and hope the thing passes off peacefully".

Grand Master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, Edward Stevenson, said: "We hope this event will be an impressive expression of our shared Christian ethos as we come together with members of the other loyal orders to collectively convey our faith, and remember and celebrate one of the most momentous events in history five centuries ago."
Hmm

All statements are in code in Northern Ireland. The SDLP statement is a reminder that the OO is not to set foot on the Garvaghy Road.

The OO statement posted by RTB is code for 'We intend to wallow in our own crapulence now that the Tories are dancing to our tune, and there is nothing the Taigs can do about it'.

This is from last year:
www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2016/06/09/news/orange-order-to-march-through-mainly-nationalist-town-in-co-antrim-554095/?ref=sh
It illustrates the aggressiveness of the Orange Order.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 11/06/2017 23:18

However spokesmen for both men denied any suggestion they were on maneuvers and suggested they are “completely” behind Mrs May

Makes sense, you need to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back Grin

Motheroffourdragons · 11/06/2017 23:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 12/06/2017 07:20

but I think it was more tactical than that. I'm in Oxford west so had an easy choice.
My friend is in east Oxford and agonised for some time about what to do. She felt most aligned to lib dem but didn't want to risk splitting the anti-Tory vote. I don't think she was alone.

I can relate similar experiences being in Oxford West but with family and friends in both Oxford East and West. The Oxford East ones mostly went with Labour, which was always a strong Labour seat, so it seemed the safer choice.

At least 4 Greens in Oxford West were pleased that the Green candidate stood aside so that they weren't torn as to who to vote for, and could vote for the LibDem candidate as the safest 'unseat the Tory' choice, because Labour has traditionally always been weak, and I don't think has ever come second even. Whereas the LibDems held the seat between 97 and 2010.

HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 07:45

I accidentally stumbled onto that thread last night. It's more than ShockShockShock
My 6yo knows the countries in the uk, and I've not taught her that. Surely that's not a school issue.

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 07:54

Just done a YouGov survey ... interesting that they had some subtle idiot-checks in place (meaning someone is paying for quality here Grin).

One of the themes was a second EU referendum.

HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 07:59

One of the themes was a second EU referendum
I'm beginning to suspect Lord Buckethead was right and we should have a referendum as to whether to hold a second referendum 😂

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 08:17

I'm beginning to suspect Lord Buckethead was right and we should have a referendum as to whether to hold a second referendum

In all seriousness, I wonder whether it's dawning on both parties that the only way to move forwards is to deal with the Leave/Remain split before trying to return to BAU ?

If that can be done without a referendum ... great (although I can't see how).

woman12345 · 12/06/2017 08:18

If that can be done without a referendum
Lord Buckethead dancing competition?
Cheese rolling?
Welly throwing?

HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 08:20

Gardiner was just on BBC breakfast. Lots of talk about how the emphasis on brexit was wrong and we need to leave the eu in a way that doesn't damage the economy or jobs.

Economy should have always been the red line of course, but does this mean fom has become a pink shade?

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 08:51

Gardiner was just on BBC breakfast. Lots of talk about how the emphasis on brexit was wrong and we need to leave the eu in a way that doesn't damage the economy or jobs.

Not sure how you can leave an organisation with is intended to bolster trade, economies and jobs without damaging ... trade, economy and jobs.

Yes, the EU may have changed or increased it's scope. But it's original pretext (not the real reason, obviously) was trade and (French and German) jobs.

Remember, the UK was becoming more desperate to join the EEC when it was clear it was working and the UK was materially starting to miss out.

Peregrina · 12/06/2017 09:53

Maybe they should have a Referendum on what options people actually want - based on ordering preferences rather than just a yes/no?

I would imagine that quite a lot of Remainers would go for an EEA type arrangement, if that were to be put to them.

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 10:01

Maybe they should have a Referendum on what options people actually want - based on ordering preferences rather than just a yes/no?

The problem there is ... yo'd never get Brexit. Imagine the questions:

Hard Brexit
Soft Brexit
No Brexit

It's almost a given that the "No" will outweigh the other two put together.

abilockhart · 12/06/2017 10:05

Indeed, Peregrina.

An EEA type arrangement, where we have all of the obligations but no say in the matter.

Though looking at our government at the moment, it could easily be argued that that is no bad thing.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:14

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
Davis says they are still working up "No Deal" plan in Government departments... be interesting to see if this published/ debated.

Matthew Holehouse @ matthewholehouse
Davis says it's "detailed". As I understand, far from it - officials still attempting to list consequences, let alone mitigating measures

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
On a desk in Whitehall there is a sheet of paper, otherwise blank, with the title "No Deal".

Three months after the A50 notification, UK is somehow now further behind then before it was made.

And the A50 clock keeps ticking.

Just a point about Labour Brexit. Labour have said a 'job's first' Brexit. There's a problem here if they think we should still leave the single market. It will mean job losses. How many job losses is acceptable? If Labour do end up in government before Brexit completed this will haunt them.

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Badders123 · 12/06/2017 10:15

That would be the EUs dream scenario I think...we've never really "got it" wrt the EU imo
We've made life quite hard for them I think
They will be glad to see the back of us

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