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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:15

An EEA type arrangement, where we have all of the obligations but no say in the matter.

And we do really have no control over EU laws. At least now we have British EU judges. This is what Farage will go after if we end up EEA.

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HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 10:16

So it's taken 12 months but someone is finally looking into something. 3 months after they triggered article 50 too. Bellends

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:25

Davis is basically saying hard Brexit is back on because of noises coming from Corbyn and McDonnell. Good stuff.

And apparently now we have this:

Andrew Lilico @ andrew_lilico
If the Lords rejects the Brexit deal we'll simply be exiting with no deal. The Lords can't make us join the EEA.

Roel @RoelD_
Do you think if public opinion shifted, there wouldnt be a HoC majority to be found for Ref-2?

Andrew Lilico @ andrew_lilico
Only if we want violent riots & possible leave-the-EU terrorist movement. If winning votes doesn't get things done, folk'll try alternatives

Roel @RoelD_
So if there would be a second referendum and it would result in a Remain win, it wouldnt be legitimate?

Andrew Lilico @ andrew_lilico
We voted to leave. We must now leave. We cld hv a 2nd referendum on re-joining later, if EU'd hv us back.

Remember how they couldn't organise a protest? Riots in Hartlepool and South Thanet. And pensioner terrorists trying to compete with ISIS inspired terrorists.

Whatever.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2017 10:26

It reminds us again what a careless pillock Cameron was: Angry

He should have made the referendum question
"do you want to leave the EU for an EEA / EFTA type deal."

That has the great merit of being achievable to organize within 2 years
It also is a definite aim, so the Ultras couldn't have taken over and claimed that Brexit meant returning to Year Zero, like Tory Pol Potters.

It could also be a stepping stone to an organised WTO Brexit say 10 years later, after trade deals are in place, if the voters really wanted that option then

For his party, it would have avoided the total chaos we now see, as business donors, more voters and the saner MPs begin to realise the economic consequences of Brexit.

Some Tories realise they will own the economic consequences of a bodged / WTO Brexit - which is probably why some on the hard left of Labour won't push for an EEA approach:
they think a desperate population after Year Zero will vote for absolutely Anything But Tory, so this is their best chance of putting their wildest dreams into practice.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:27

Ian Dunt @ iandunt
Libertarians arguing for border controls. Socialists arguing for freedom of movement for capital but not labour.
One of the useful things about Brexit is how shallow it has shown most people's ideological convictions to be.

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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:30

Mike Smithson @ MikeSmithsonPB
Staggering. Votes shares in London at GE17
LAB 54.5%
CON 33.2%
LD 8.8%
GRN 1.8%
UKIP 1.3%
LAB exceeded all the polls in the capital

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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:32

Michael Crick @ MichaelLCrick
Theresa May's "brought in talent from across the party" line is a bit strange. The only person she's brought in so far is Michael Gove

What's the comment?

If you think the answer to your problems is Boris Johnson or Michael Give you are asking the wrong question

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hushlittlepuppy · 12/06/2017 10:33

"One of the useful things about Brexit is how shallow it has shown most people's ideological convictions to be."

Again asking a dim question, I hope you can bare with me, but why odes ID say this about people being shallow.

On a further note, almost all British born people I speak to , whether they are Remainers or Leavers, Tory or Labour voters, feel that there has been too much immigration in recent years.

It makes me feel depressed. Sad.

HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 10:34

Basically don't trust Corbyn because he's a terrorist supporter but if we don't get rid of those forriners even if it destroys us financially we will take to violence. What a nice bunch of people

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:35

Sam Freedman @ samfr
Myth developing that Lab did well solely because students turned out. Helped in some seats but was 25-44yr olds who made the most difference
Tories need to find a way to speak to young professionals and parents not just kids.

Benjamin Lauderdale @ benlauderdale
Exactly right. According to the YouGov model, something like 30% of 2015 Con voters in these age brackets defected, mostly the remainers.

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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:39

Nick Reeves - 48@ NickReeves9678
FPTP means there is no practical means by which Remainers can electorally punish Labour without shooting ourselves in the foot.

There is. It's just unlikely.

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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:43

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
1. So unprepared for their victory, and so unaware of what to do next, Brexiteers fell for the May approach. Nodding along, with each error.
2. Any criticism of May was "remoaning". She had to be defended without question, all along she was making a successful Brexit less likely.
3. So protected was May from serious criticism, because of Brexit partisanship, mistakes were getting bigger. Hubris.
4. Until she made the biggest mistake possible: triggering Article 50's two year period then calling an election.
5. That mistake did not come out of the blue. It was just the latest misjudgment in a sequence of unforced errors she was getting away with.
6. If Brexiteerers had spent less time telling critics to "get over it" they could have checked May's clumsy tactics. She was real problem.
7. Brexit may be beyond any politician. No PM could do it. But.
8. Having a realistic, open and collaborative approach to a complex task is the fundamental requirement.

Now perhaps too late.

/ends

They will keep doing it, the long May stays.

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citroenpresse · 12/06/2017 10:45

Did LAB exceed polls? YouGov had Labour on 50 and Tories on 33 in their London poll before the election. Labour gained 7 seats in 2015 election and some of those (e.g. Ruth Cadbury) were returned with stronger majorities this time round.

citroenpresse · 12/06/2017 10:52

gained 7 seats in London, that is.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2017 10:56

Invoking A50 before calling the GE was a deliberate burning of the boats by May and the Tory Ultras Angry

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 10:59

Yep indeed big choc.

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RedToothBrush · 12/06/2017 11:00

I but Corbyn and McDonnell are propping it up. Still.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2017 11:01

Rejection of Theresa May’s little Englander ‘Brexit’ is splendid news
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/10/rejection-theresa-mays-little-englander-brexit-splendid-news/

"For liberal, free-market Brexiteers, the election shock is a gift from Mount Olympus.
We are dancing cartwheels and quaffing our sparkling Kentish wines.Grin

"Theresa May’s plummeting star is an entirely unexpected chance to refashion British withdrawal from the European Union along different lines.

It re-opens the possibility of a ‘Norwegian’ solution or close variant, an option that she shut down prematurely without debate because it limits her ability to control inflows of EU workers.

".....But it was certainly a rejection of Mrs May’s particular variant of Brexit.
Call it ‘hard’ if you wish.
I prefer to call it insular, pedantic, and illiberal.

"The natural fit at this stage is the European Economic Area (EEA),
the Norwegian option that was once held out as the Holy Grail by Brexiteers of gradualist philosophy, but was subsequently rubbished by the tub-thumpers and Burka banners.

The party of this ideology secured 1.8pc of the vote on Thursday, nota bene < he means UKIP >
It has no legitimate veto over anything.

"The EEA would in principle allow Britain to preserve open trade with the EU single market and retain passporting rights for the City of London,
the goose that lays the golden egg for a very vulnerable British economy.

" 'We should use the EEA as a vehicle to lengthen the transition time',
said Lord (David) Owen, one-time Labour foreign secretary and doyen of the EEA camp.

'Theresa May’s massive mistake has been to allow talk of a hard Brexit to run and run, and to refuse to frame a deal in a way that makes sense for the Europeans.
The logic of the EEA is irrefutable,'

"Critics argue that the Norwegian route is tantamount to remaining in the EU, but on worse terms, with no vote over policy.
This is a canard.

EEA states are exempt from the EU’s farming and fisheries policies, as well as from foreign affairs, defence, and justice.

They are free from great swathes of EU dominion established by the Amsterdam, Nice, and Lisbon Treaties.

"Above all, EEA states are not subject to the European Court’s (ECJ) limitless writ over almost all areas of law through elastic invocation of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights."

"Britain would have to tolerate relatively open flows of migrant workers.
But contrary to widespread belief,
the EEA does not entail full acceptance of the EU’s 'four freedoms' – movement of goods, services, capital, and people.

"The arrangement allows 'a lesser degree' of free movement than within the EU.
The language covers the issue of residence, an entirely different matter from the rights of EU citizenship created by the Maastricht Treaty.

The EEA permits the sort of emergency brake on migrant flows that was denied to Mr Cameron in his last-ditch talks with the EU before the Referendum.

"The EEA option is the best political solution on offer given the new circumstances.
It is a graceful way out of the impasse for all parties, not least for a divided EU with a looming budget crunch and a mountain of other problems to deal with.

"... Yet Tory ultras did not win a mandate in this election for their hair-raising adventure into uncharted waters.

"The vote changed the dynamics of Brexit.
Compromise is now ineluctable.

Jeremy Corbyn and his army of the young may have done this nation a favour."

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 11:05

If you think the answer to your problems is Boris Johnson or Michael Give you are asking the wrong question

A rather pointed question I read elsewhere was how many people were asked and said no, before Gove ?

I bet Tory party HQ are pretty glad that Whatsapp messages are as safe from Russian (or any other) hackers as they could be ....

LurkingHusband · 12/06/2017 11:09

Exactly right. According to the YouGov model, something like 30% of 2015 Con voters in these age brackets defected, mostly the remainers.

One of the biggest things about GE2017 (apart from the result Grin) was how spectacularly wrong traditional polls were.

Except YouGov. (Which I was very wary of, being such a lone voice).

I suspect YouGov stock right now is sky high (hence the survey I completed earlier). I also suspect CCHQ really won't like the results.

TheElementsSong · 12/06/2017 11:11

Andrew Lilico @ andrew_lilico
Only if we want violent riots & possible leave-the-EU terrorist movement. If winning votes doesn't get things done, folk'll try alternatives

Wait, what? For a year, we've been told that Remoaners who don't recant and declare their obeisance to the Brave Brexit religion are "traitors" and "saboteurs" just for, like using words. But threatening riots and terrorism is just A-OK if you're a Brexiteer?

HashiAsLarry · 12/06/2017 11:15

exactly elements

Isnt violence for political means terrorism?
This is what happens when your government courts the extremists though, so maybe it's not terrorism just state sponsored violence instead.

squoosh · 12/06/2017 11:21

They are suddenly sounding a bit shrill and frightened.

Poor little loves.

TheElementsSong · 12/06/2017 11:28

Am slightly tempted to post this on all the Angry Tory Supporters threads, asking which of them wrote this Grin:

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15340964.Letter_to_the_Editor__Remoaners_are_to_blame_for_the_electoral_debacle/

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