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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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howabout · 02/06/2017 16:09

Vince Cable saying some interesting and eminently sensible things on FoM

...He thinks it is "important to assure people that it is managed" but does not think doing so is incompatible with single market membership as it is possible to "pragmatically control immigration in certain areas".

Germany does not allow free movement of professionals, he said, and Switzerland, though not an EU member, has an arrangement with the single market meaning that you need to have a job offer in order to move there.

silkybear · 02/06/2017 16:11

Just had a scary thought, if it is a hung parliament on the 9th, what will happen about brexit negotiations starting? I seem to remember it taking a few days maybe even weeks of pissing around before clegg and cameron came to a coalition deal. Could we end up due to start but still have no formal government in place? How is that going to look to Brussels? What a shit show.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 16:16

Anyone seen this ?

Most depressing thing, maybe this year:

D.G, 18 - year old male student
I'm not going to vote because I have important stuff like the upcoming exams to focus on.

lalalonglegs · 02/06/2017 16:18

Didn't someone post uothread a suggestion from the EU that talks could be postponed in the event of KC winning the election? I'd Luke to think the two-year countdown would be paused as well but perhaps that's too optimistic (like hoping for a hung parliament).

lalalonglegs · 02/06/2017 16:19

JC not KC (much as I'd love Ken to be PM).

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 16:25

I would be sooo disappointed if someone who looks as good over Clegg as Farron to me, goes over and makes a deal with Tories. Even thinking of that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Even a cursary glance at the live debate makes it clear that Rudd and Nuttal could be classified together (which serves Rudd very well for that Tory conference speech; still makes me angry) with the rest on the other side.

silkybear · 02/06/2017 16:25

Yep maybe we will delay negotiations but the 2 year clock has already begun ticking I believe.

silkybear · 02/06/2017 16:28

Breaking news; Owen Jones was sent an anonymous email from a bbc insider saying May has pulled out of all further bbc radio shows/interviews. They are under orders to keep it secret and not post on twitter ect. Tory HQ has confirmed this. What is going on? Do you think she is ill?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 16:30

I hope he stays as leader and doesn't get shafted tbh

He has to save his seat first. That YouGov thing showed it certainly isn't a certainty. Nor is Cleggs.

Gumpendorf · 02/06/2017 16:32

It's all negotiable, silky. May is using the start date is as a kind of blackmail - vote for me or else. The EU have said they will give any new govt time and that presupposes the clock will be stopped on the 2 year timetable to accommodate it.

Let's be clear, May has already wasted 6 weeks of that 2 years on a quite unnecessary election.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 16:33

Tory HQ has confirmed this.

No they haven't. He has asked them to confirm.

howabout · 02/06/2017 16:33

silky I don't think a formal coalition would be possible with the largest other party atm ie the SNP, but given the current degree of Devolution and a bit of nifty footwork to give NS a seat in the Brexit room in return for her backing out of Indyref2 I don't think it would be needed.

Labour and SNP used to running minority administrations in Holyrood. The rest would look a bit silly if they refused to join up.

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 16:36

do you think she is ill?
That post on Owen Jones' Facebook has been doing the rounds for some time now. I don't think it has a lot to do with her health though that could be a contributing factor. I think it is a massive amount of fuck ups that she will have to answer for if she appears live, including u turns on the election manisfeto itself. Hmm that is not going to be a pretty sight just a few days before election. She probably has neither the energy (health) nor the competence to do much on live talks now.

TheElementsSong · 02/06/2017 16:37

What is going on?

I realise I'm not a True BeLeaver, but it doesn't look terribly Strong or Stable, does it?

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 16:38

I don't think Tory HQ have confirmed this. And I don't think they can, unless it is also to announce that she is unwell so unable to do it right now.

silkybear · 02/06/2017 16:39

Sorry you are right Piglet, he said he had now confirmed this with the bbc, but not had a response from tory hq. I misread Blush

TheElementsSong · 02/06/2017 16:39

There is no such thing as a Magic Money Tree, believers in the Enchanted Brexit Fountain of Prosperity have told Jeremy Corbyn.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/magic-money-tree-false-but-enchanted-brexit-fountain-real-20170602128690

silkybear · 02/06/2017 16:40

So no official response yet but certainly its an odd way to be running a campaign.

Artisanjam · 02/06/2017 16:40

Ed Miliband on Teresa May and the American withdrawal from the Paris agreement:

^The reason this matters is the signal it sends, the signal it sends about British leadership, and Theresa may is sending a signal that she is weak and feeble and spineless, I’m afraid ...
If ever there was a moment when Britain needed a strong leader, it was now, and it turns out we’ve got an incredible weak one who is missing in action. I’m afraid that is what people are increasingly thinking about Theresa May ...
Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs does not normally tweet at all. Now, I’m not a friend of Goldman Sachs on everything, but he actually tweeted for the first time yesterday to say how wrong this decision is..^And that is the scale of this. Barack Obama, Al Gore, business leaders, scientists, all coming out and saying President Trump. And where is British leadership? It is absolutely nowhere ...
The reason why the British response matters is that the Paris agreement was a fragile thing and a hard thing to negotiate, and the lack of American leadership, and America withdrawing from it, is bad, and let’s make no bones about it. But it’s so important that the rest of the world now says, with determination, not just that we are going to carry on, but that it’s unacceptable, that you are a pariah of the international community, to withdraw from it. ^
When it was put to him that May has said she expressed disappointment about Trump’s decision, Miliband replied:
Disappointment is when your football team loses a match. It is not when somebody makes a devastating decision like this. America is one of the two largest emitters in the world, along with China. This decision was backed by every country in the world apart from Syria, which is in the middle of a civil war, and Nicaragua, which wanted us to go further. American leadership was so important to this.

Gumpendorf · 02/06/2017 16:41

Do you think she is ill?

I'm surprised the press haven't already asked that question given her strange behaviour. She is either unwell in which case she should 'fess up' or she is incapable of keeping to a schedule which requires lots of interaction, questions and appearances. So not strong or stable.

The press don't press the Tories on her claim that insteadshe is meeting real people rather than doing media. They know she visits discreet locations with vetted supporters who submit questions in advance. Why does no one call her out on it?

Just how this makes May the only person capable of negotiating Brexit is beyond me.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 16:42

Breaking news; Owen Jones was sent an anonymous email from a bbc insider saying May has pulled out of all further bbc radio shows/interviews. They are under orders to keep it secret and not post on twitter ect. Tory HQ has confirmed this. What is going on? Do you think she is ill?

Hypothesis:

The Grand Wizards of the Tory party have already decided May should go, and are preparing the grounds for an "ill health" resignation (a la Wilson) on June 9th.

Cue howls of outrage from the more dim members of the electorate who consistently fail to grasp how the UK electoral system works. (Which is probably a union with the set that is the thickies back in 2010 who struggled to grasp how coalitions work).

To have one unelected prime minister is unfortunate. To have two begins to look like carelessness ...

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 16:47

Miliband replied

Why do these people seem to become so more reasonable and eloquent when they aren't in politics ?

Alternatively, as someone who thought Harriet Harman and John Prescott were skilled debaters, how come winning power seems to turn people into gibbering fools.

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 16:51

The Grand Wizards of the Tory party have already decided May should go, and are preparing the grounds for an "ill health" resignation (a la Wilson) on June 9th.
You are spot on there LH.
I just asked this on another thread: who could be the next one then?
I really don't think Rudd will dare it anymore now. She was beaten to a pulp on live tv.
Davis doesn't know his left hand from right and appeared either drunk or drugged the other day on camera. I would have hoped for Hammond but he is Remain so I am now totally lost.
I don't think they can afford any unknown face right now and no show May along with all the daily fuck ups is going to have to bear with this for some time now I think.
that makes me visiously satisfied on the account that she actually wanted to be PM one day (words of her husband) and I really dislike leaders who have wanted to be leaders for such a long time because they make some of the worst leaders I think

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 16:54

Why do these people seem to become so more reasonable and eloquent when they aren't in politics ?
I think that is a sign of leadership skills that you stay consistent always. So if someone isn't, they don't come across as leadership material. DH always used to complain about Miliband on this. This is also Corbyn's strongest point probably: his tone is always "strong and stable" at the same wave length generally pun intended. That is good for the public image, specially among youngsters who think it's all a mad show of shouting matches.

howabout · 02/06/2017 16:55

Guessing all will be revealed when she has her date with Dimbleby this evening - thinking there may be an All or Nothing strategy afoot.

Like your theory LH but don't think even the Tories could pull it off - bet they are wishing they had gone for Beauty contest followed by Election last Autumn like sane normal people - would have got BoJo though Smile