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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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Gumpendorf · 02/06/2017 18:36

Rudd appeared quite decent when she was campaigning for Remain. Not so much since she became Home Secretary.

Badders123 · 02/06/2017 18:38

Still no labour or lib dem leaflets here.
3 Tory ones though.....

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 18:39

"surely they wouldn't be so cynical"
gumpendorf Whenever I've thought that, the Tory party prove me wrong
Also wrt bare-faced cheek.

howabout · 02/06/2017 18:43

Red re your YouGov curios list see Faisal's comments on the Lexit effect and also Dementia tax in the North. I don't think the ConKip Alliance is "On" here any more.

Faisal is back on form after his minor strop over being upstaged by MH Smile

Not heard much from Laura K recently?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 18:43

To think I thought at the start of the GE that the Tories might reach 50%
I certainly assumed a 100-150 landslide

I never expected Maybot's death ray

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 18:46

We've been getting tons of leaflets from everyone here. The lib dem have sent the most, followed by Tory. Labour, UkIp and an independent not so many. Labour don't stand a hope in hell, so I was surprised they even bothered.

howabout · 02/06/2017 18:49

Zxy struggling to think what voters are opposed to in Labour manifesto - possibly IHT but that doesn't impact their core vote espec when stood up against Dementia Tax - Ed Davey was good on this on DP earlier? Policies all said to be polling very well but issues on Leadership and Trust over economic competence and Brexit would be how I would frame it.

I think there is a reluctance among voters, espec older, to change their minds and admit to falling for Newspaper spin - not helped by the PLP right up until last month.

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 18:49

Same here bigchoc. Not so long ago I had assumed at least 100 majority for May. Next to that even 75 doesn't seem so amazing and I would be pretty pleased with it being knocked down to 40.

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 18:51

I thought there was a poll posted on here the other day that showed people generally preferred the labour policies over the Tory ones, but still see May as the best leader. If that changes Tories will be in big trouble.

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 18:52

Sorry, how. I realise I just repeated exactly what you said. I need to stop just typing my thought process. Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 18:53

He'll be the youngest ever RoI PM, too

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40134140

".... the fact that Ireland is set to have a half-Indian, openly gay prime minister.

Mr Varadkar has come to embody the liberalisation of a country which was once regarded as one of the most socially conservative in Europe.

But, in Ireland, Mr Varadkar's sexuality and ethnic background have not been particularly prominent."
< mark of a relaxed grownup society >

< one surprising thing: Fine Gael has only 21,000 members - Scotland with similar population size has SNP 120,000 >

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 18:54

Not heard much from Laura K recently?

She has been on all BBC news bulletins for starters.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:55

I don't think the ConKip Alliance is "On" here any more.

Nope. Neither do I. I'm seeing other things happening too. Which is why I think Tory HQ are panicking as they were banking on it being about Brexit (Note Ashcroft's polling actually focuses on Enthusiastic, ReLeavers and Remoaners and that seems to be what its NOT about anymore. Hence trying to switch back to focus the agenda on Brexit. It does beg that question about is YouGov seeing something different. I personally think there is a case for it, but they are also overcooking it).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2945002-Westministenders-Election-Mayhem?watched=1
New Thread.

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 19:03

howabout Another MN thread is panicking about Land Tax discussion, driving away higher taxpayers, Corbyn an IRA supporter coming to get you, ..... Amageddon coming.

Seems real panic, plus anger at "greedy" voters turning to Labour after the manifesto
I still expect a working Tory majority, but I hope the fright has cut some arrogance. Maybe the govt will realise they can't privatize / trash the nhs and the welfare state without risking great public anger.

If Starmer / Jarvis lead on a similar manifesto next GE, Labour will win heavily

howabout · 02/06/2017 19:03

Ah but you think much more succinctly than me Bigly Smile

Must be my kneejerk reflex tuning her out all the time then piglet. I know a whole crew of people who went to her old school with very similar smug opinions of themselves and perhaps unfairly I am apt not to give her the benefit of the doubt on accusations of being a biased lightweight.

howabout · 02/06/2017 19:08

Bigchoc they were all unwavering Tory voters anyway.

sodablackcurrant · 02/06/2017 19:10

The hubris of la May thinking all she had to do was go to the country on the back of Corbyn's derisory reputation at the time and be the arch negotiator for Brexit. Even though she was a remainer herself.

A week sure is a long time in politics.

Anyone think softTories will be terrified and there will be a surge back to them now?

Apologies I am not in the UK so looking on from afar.

But I am in the country that has just appointed an Irish/Indian gay doctor with a partner who is also a doctor to be the next Taoiseach (PM).

No one is batting an eyelid. Except for the fact that he is a bit too right wing in policy for some. But he will have to toe the line, he will be leading a minority Government.

Great days, and an election in UK next week. I love all this.

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 19:12

Ah but you think much more succinctly than me Bigly

Why thank you! Writing crazy stuff succinctly pretty much sums up my entire job Grin

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 19:34

Anyone think softTories will be terrified and there will be a surge back to them now?

Yes quite possibly. BUT. They also don't necessarily like May. Nor Brexit either. The more that the Brexit thing is ramped up and illiberal stuff comes out (like not doing interviews), the more it will also turn them off too. This is why the strategy is fraught with problems for the Tories too.

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squoosh · 02/06/2017 19:39

Mr Varadkar has come to embody the liberalisation of a country which was once regarded as one of the most socially conservative in Europe.

Which is deeply ironic since Leo Varadkar is so ultra conservative himself. He is a self confessed Thatcherite and he has little regard for the poorer members of society and doesn't think Irish women being forced to go abroad for an abortion is a health issue or a big deal. He actually put it on a par with people going to Amsterdam for the weekend and smoking weed, a minor trifling matter that just happened to be illegal in Ireland.

So his becoming Taoiseach does seem superficially as though it's emblematic of huge changes in Irish society and I suppose in some ways it is, but on the other hand he also symbolises a lot of what is wrong with Irish society too.

sodablackcurrant · 02/06/2017 19:44

Red,

For some the alternative of Corbyn (even though he has done very well so far from what I caught up with), might just be a tad too big a price to pay though.

It is fascinating how quickly things turned around. Even if it is short lived, which I hope it isn't.

Corbyn probably needs to give succour to Remainers and show how he would handle negotiations. Come on Jeremy...

I always thought May (given her Remain stance) was a "hunt with the hare, and run with the hounds" type of person. And so it came to pass.

Her insistence that she would be oh so strong in Brexit negotiations is looking a bit weak now that she is not prepared to debate with anyone on TV.

Some could call that hubris, I call it terror!

sodablackcurrant · 02/06/2017 19:48

Sqoosh,

I know this about Vlad, but at the same time he will be leading a minority Government, so his leeway to emulate Maggie and so on will be somewhat curtailed. As you are no doubt aware, the "squeezed middle" are looking for a voice now. They haven't really had one up to now.

I reckon he will be the Taoiseach (PM for others reading) with the shortest incumbency. Himself and Theresa might have something in common in time!

But stranger things have happened, as we have seen.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 19:52

squoosh doesn't think Irish women being forced to go abroad for an abortion is a health issue or a big deal. He actually put it on a par with people going to Amsterdam for the weekend and smoking weed gender politics and male capital: a whole nuther thread and thanks for posting that.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 19:55

Yes quite possibly. BUT. They also don't necessarily like May. Nor Brexit either

There could also be some that really don't like Corbyn and dont want him any where near number 10 but like local candidates so were still voting Labour. What will they do?

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