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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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squoosh · 02/06/2017 13:47

If I'm faced with a topless and scything JRM on BBC1 I'll be coming after you howabout. He's definitely more of a Francis than a Ross!

squoosh · 02/06/2017 13:48

Actually no, he's more of a scheming Warleggan, 'umble origins but desperate to elevate himself in society.

I'll stop de-railing now! Grin

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 02/06/2017 13:49

Jeremy Corbyn @jeremycorbyn
·
5m

Tonight's the final "debate" of the #GE2017 campaign, but @Theresa_May & I will be on #BBCQT separately because she's refusing to take me on
mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/870621700152582145/video/1

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 13:52

I have duly posted Zak's non attendance to the HustingsFlunkers website - but I am about to go out to help the Election campaign now, so any more that need logging won't be done til I get back.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 13:53

YouGov Model daily update:

Cons down to 313 seats. (yesterday 317)
Labour at 257. (yesterday 257)
LDs at 9. (yesterday 10)
SNP 48 (didn’t make note of seat number yesterday sorry!)
Plaid 2
Green 1

I'm going though to see the changes properly. Will post shortly.

Note: Sheffield Hallam has switched from Lean Labour to Likely Labour overnight. Doesn't look good for Cleggy....

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howabout · 02/06/2017 13:53

ron don't forget the tattoo Grin

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 13:55

Good luck peregrina and good question to Tim.

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 13:59

Some good answers from Tim too.

twofingerstoEverything · 02/06/2017 14:01

Thanks Peregrina. Have PMd you.

Charmageddon · 02/06/2017 14:06

Tim was ace!

taytopotato · 02/06/2017 14:21

Moggy's other sister is very pro Steiner education.

Tbf, his children are very well behaved

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 14:24

Surprisingly - given airs and graces - not an old county family at all. JRM's father was journalist and editor of Times so practically trade.

And who famously defended the Rolling Stones on the front cover of said Times

"Who Breaks a Butterfly on a Wheel ?"

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 14:41

I doubt its changed your mind Charmageddon about your vote, but its interesting to see you give a favourable review.

I do think Farron has been given a really bad press (and actually the LDs in general). In no small part down to the fact that they seem to be held to different level of standards or are somehow seen as more principled in the first place. Labour are almost seen as slightly incompetent but people accept that in return for social benefits, whilst the Cons are seen as untrustworthy but the means justify the ends in the long run.

I've said this before that although the LDs are in essence they are pro-Remain, in practice because they are so outnumbered, its purely about encouraging debate and softening outcomes. Even proposing an exit referendum strikes me as an openly gambit in the event of trying to get concessions on parliamentary amendments and votes. There has been a shift in their policy since the ref on it, but its only been subtle. Using the slogan 'Stop a hard brexit' which they are using, suggests that they would accept a soft brexit not that they would stop brexit completely.

The message hasn't got across, in part because they can't explicitly say that as it defeats the point of what they are trying to do if they did!

Its kind of a reverse Labour position, but hasn't paid off in the same way with the election coming at the point it did. They are struggling to retain long term LDs who are Leavers. I know a few all who say its the only reason they won't vote LD this time around - not that they like anyone else.

I do wonder what will happen to them after the election. Its a bit of a weird one. They are liked but this isn't their election for reasons largely beyond their control, but also as a consequence of being too pro-European for many people's tastes. I think they might have problems financially in the short term especially if they lose a lot of deposits.

The problem is, particularly if they loose seats, how do they get people to vote for them in the future in a situation where they come third or less in most seats. The polarising effect of tactical voting this time round will only make that harder. And also harder for liberal centrist voices within both Labour and the Cons too. Which I don't think is good for democracy regardless of which rosette you like.

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Cailleach1 · 02/06/2017 14:47

Woman, "Have the DUP/UU been imbibing or ingesting what they didn't ought to?"

Like the devil's buttermilk. Maybe they got some of Corbyn, him being so close to the devil and all. God knows what goes on up at the allotment.

Squoosh, maybe JRM only shagged five times for the kiddies.

Toby Young tried to smear but it was put in perspective by Mason.. He kept going on about how Corbyn was so evil to have had tea with Sinn Féin. Mason said SF were a politial party and Thatcher negotiated with the IRA itself. Young had a puss like a lemon.

LH, many common names are kind of foreign. The bible ones are middle eastern. Ruth, Rebecca, Mary, Miriam, Elizabeth (from Elisheba). David, Jonathan, Joseph, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And so on. A few Christian names are European, when they make a Christian saint out of them. Bizarrely, Martin comes from the Roman God of War, Mars. Then a Martin was sainted (at least one) and it becomes a Christian name.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 14:59

LH, many common names are kind of foreign.

If you knew my real name, you'd know why I LOLed at that Grin

2 out of 3 are distinctly non-UK. And even the one which is UK is odd for my age (my DM was 2 years ahead of TV fashion, it seems).

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 15:00

Ipos/Mori's raw data is showing something different than previously. It shows that Labour ahead by 3 points but when likelihood of voting added in, its coming out as Cons ahead by 5 points.

Election Data‏**@election**_data
By 'eck, there's gonna be some shite takes next Friday!

Election Data‏**@election**_data

So, either the polling samples are completely unrepresentative or candidates in seats are speaking to the wrong people. Or both. Or neither

Westministenders – 10 days to go
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LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 15:05

I do think Farron has been given a really bad press (and actually the LDs in general). In no small part down to the fact that they seem to be held to different level of standards or are somehow seen as more principled in the first place.

I would suggest that UK politics is pretty infantile, and "Yah-boo", and the LibDems are the grown-ups.

The 2010 coalition decision being the best example. They knew full well it would cost them dearly, but put country before party, and knuckled down.

In fact, I would suggest a true mark of a LibDem is that they would reply that given those same circumstances, they would make the same decision.

By their own logic from 2010 they are spared having to make that decision again. Even if we go through the looking glass into a hung parliament, they could argue that the country has rejected the Tories, and they are not going to prop up a rejected government.

squoosh · 02/06/2017 15:06

I know he's on the cover of this week's NME but Corbyn is also getting a Kerrang cover too. And then of course there's his popularity with British Grime artists Grin

Westministenders – 10 days to go
RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 15:10

Jessica Elgot‏*@jessicaelgot*

Spoke to five Labour MPs in different kinds of seats across UK today. All say they have not seen dramatic change polls are suggesting.
Most of them have canvassed in many other seats as well as their own. One said YouGov poll had been highly damaging - made voters complacent
All holding out hope there's something they're missing. But worried scrutiny of the Tories will give way to narrative about coalitions.

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RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 15:15

britainelects.com/nowcast/
Britain elections seat by seat.

Conservative 362
Labour 206
Scottish National 47
Liberal Democrat 11
Plaid Cymru 4
Green 1
NI 18
Other 1

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Cailleach1 · 02/06/2017 15:16

Flat out lie from DD on QT. Said the Commission made a bid for 100 billion cost of Brexit payment from UK. That only came from the Financial Times. He said an EU refusal to accept UK control of own borders, Commission said UK have to stay inside the customs union.

When did they say that?. Did the Commission or Barnier say any of those things? The EU are not falling over themselves to make the UK stay inside the single market.

The only things they have said are the three things that have to be sorted out before they talk trade. They accept the decision and the UK have to accept the consequences of being a third country if no sorting out of issues.

Cailleach1 · 02/06/2017 15:28

LH, at least your name was in TV fashion at some point. Mine never had that claim to glamour.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 15:29

All say they have not seen dramatic change polls are suggesting.

Tbf Johnny Mercer has said the same and he has been brutally honest at times about thinks he's talked about on the doorstep.

howabout · 02/06/2017 15:51

The Britain Elects seat by seat looks much more in line with the Scottish predictions reported up here so far than the Yougov or Electoralcalculus from yesterday which just didn't make sense.

Charmageddon · 02/06/2017 16:02

I doubt its changed your mind Charmageddon about your vote, but its interesting to see you give a favourable review.

It hasn't, no - for me this election is Brexit & I cannot stand JC & his team.

However, next election I will most likely to switch to Lib Dem - I like Tim Farron a lot, he has the common touch & is very down to earth & pragmatic.
I hope he stays as leader and doesn't get shafted tbh - I actually prefer him to Clegg, & I quite liked Clegg.