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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 17:40

it's not Merkel's problem that the UK has no ID cards and can't manage immigration
May never managed to reduce NON-EU immigration propertly in all her years as HomeSec

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 17:41

Plymouth Sutton and Devonport -> LAB gain from CON (Johnny Mercer)

This one will be interesting. Johnny is a very well liked local MP. I hear he will keep it but will be tight. His local popularity could see him through.

Being ex forces in a naval town probably will help too.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 17:46

I am opposed to having people come to live and work in the UK without access to the same services / benefits as UK Nationals and therefore was opposed to DC's renegotiation.

What was sad, and noteworthy (in that it seems the Tories made a note of it for future use) is how willing the UK public were to shit on their own citizens just to have the pleasure of saying "Nein, Hermann; Non Jacques" with regard to benefits.

Although very few of the people I spoke to at the time understood the idea of treating everybody equally anyway. I think it's a UK peculiarity. Everybody wants to be treated equally, but is much less willing to treat equally. (you can see where "Animal Farm" was born).

Bolshybookworm · 02/06/2017 17:52

C'mon Pudsey! Would love it if they got rid of Stuart Andrews, his smug face stares down at me every time I drive down our local A road. I did notice that someone had stuck a "vote labour" sticker over his nose the other day though Grin

Bolshybookworm · 02/06/2017 17:56

My village appears to be a local battleground in the fight for/against Phillip Davies. We've been deluged with leaflets and there's even been a bit of (polite) graffiti. Lots of labour placards which there weren't last election.
I actually really like the lib dem candidate here but feel that I have to vote labour if I want any chance of ousting Davies Sad. Still a slim chance though, even with his links to the far right. He may be a decent local MP but his views are abominable. I can't support him, my conscience wouldn't let me.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 17:58

I can't remember - is this Labour's first time at 40 % ?

Ipsos MORI’s penultimate election poll

www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/theresa-mays-personal-ratings-fall-labour-reduces-conservative-lead

Changes are since mid-May, so don't get over-excited by 10% drop in Tory lead to 5%

Minor methodology change:
filtered out unregistered people and adjusted turnout to account for overestimation.

This resulted in +1% CON ,-1% LAB
So previous methodology would have shown 3% Tory lead.

CON 45%(-4)
LAB 40%(+6)
LDEM 7%(nc)

BiglyBadgers · 02/06/2017 18:00

Thought: Are the govt deliberately running down the A50 clock?

Personally I put it down to cock up rather than conspiracy. I just don't think the conservatives have a clue what they are doing or how to handle Brexit and the inevitable fall out from it.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 18:01

May's rating on doing her job has plummeted there to -7% (cowardy custard ?)
Corbyn's rating has risen -4%

First time they've been comparable

silkybear · 02/06/2017 18:02

Plymouth moor view has a good labour candidate and colville the sitting tory only narrowly won last time and was on the list for election fraud and dodgy expenses. I think that will be a labour win. May visiting plymouth twice but doing terrible interviews hidden from the public hasnt gone down well here.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 18:04

Bolshy Rooting for you. Star Philip Davies is a VILE excuse for a human being

Badders123 · 02/06/2017 18:06

We might end up with a John major type backbencher I guess when Estée come out for May - which they assuredly will.
But I really would have to question the intelligence of anyone wanting to take over this omnishambles

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:08

www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-vows-eliminate-nato-threat-sweden-joins-619486
Putin Vows Military Response to 'Eliminate NATO Threat' If Sweden Joins U.S.-Led Alliance

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Badders123 · 02/06/2017 18:10

When the knives come out

No idea what Estée Lauder has to do with anything!
🙄😂

lalalonglegs · 02/06/2017 18:10

Has Sophie Thingy of WEP had any impact in Shipley? More United wanted (and got enough votes) to donate to her campaign - I was appalled by her arrogance, suggesting that other parties should make way for her in a head to head with Davies.

Bolshybookworm · 02/06/2017 18:16

That's pretty much what the graffiti said BigChoc Grin

Zxyzoey31 · 02/06/2017 18:19

The adage power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely springs to mind with May. Firstly she appeared sensible and then it has become that she will do so much for power. Ie she didn't believe Brexit was a good thing but then it gave her a chance for pm and she realized it was a great ticket to cement her position and she has clung to it ever since. That appears to explain her economically untenable lets leave the customs union and single market and other actions. She is a clever women, she knows the economic outcome for the country, she just might not care.

Zxyzoey31 · 02/06/2017 18:22

Oops I meant power crazy, I didn't mean to imply corruption.

Valentine2 · 02/06/2017 18:23

Personally I put it down to cock up rather than conspiracy.
I was all hope for May being a sensible person and appointing BoJo et al as a way of revenge and to rid of them deliberately. Quite a few people here told me it is not that and it is downright incompetence instead. I am proven so wrong. Thought of this when Rudd managed to utter on live tv that selling arms to Saudis is good for business. Blush

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:25

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

1/15 started campaign visiting 10 Labour seats in Tory sights - Bury, Bolton, Wakefield, Mansfield, Gedling etc...May Brexit surge was there
2/15 ... in many my sense was that many local Labour had a month ago given up. Half Ukip vote plus Tory = loss. At least on spreadsheet.
3/15 ... but the swing to May was brittle, based on perceptions that she was a benevolent Maggie in an uncertain time, esp cf Corbyn
4/15 ..Most Leave voters not Brexiteers. The EU referendum forced them one way, for millions it is not the issue that defines them even now.
4b/15 ...eg did a documentary in Sunderland with Leave voters who loved Boris, but had no intention of abandoning Labour... no "betrayal"
5/15 overwhelming impression from month ago: these seats, some Labour since 1930s, were in play, but a lot easier said than done...
6/15 Con campaigns in new territory though, did not have ground data, voting records etc...& short campaign limit kicked in immediately
7/15 So Tories hugely reliant on a huge wave of national letters "from Theresa May" and localised ones delivered to postal voters mid May
8/15 All this national campaigning and Facebook targeting of ads was built on "strong & stable" brand, downplayed party and local candidates
9/15 Other than banning rugby league, cant think of a policy more laser-guided at deterring Northern lab leavers than WFA cut & care reforms
10/15 Then Labour manifesto with elements of Lexit- eg nationalisations difficult in EU - has turned heads of some of that Leave vote
11/15 After u-turn May approval ratings gone negative at worst poss time & for Corbyn have gone from up from v. negative. big relative move.
12/15 To build an entire campaign on what were huge net positive approval ratings that then subsequently go negative, is quite something
13/15 doubling down on Brexit is not definitively the right strategy to win back voters who wavered over cuts, winter fuel allowances & care
14/15 - our teams around the country are seeing the race close in and Labour vote in many Labour strongholds under Tory attack now holding
15/15 going to be long night on Thurs -perhaps Brexit plus strategy does yield Lab seats in Yorks/NE, but Lab could make gains in cuts areas

uk.businessinsider.com/tory-hq-fear-30-40-seats-unexpectedly-high-voter-volatility-2017-6
Theresa May's campaign fears dozens of battleground seats are now vulnerable due to high voter volatility

Think there is interesting things in this article. Tory HQ focused their efforts on seats that were real Labour heartlands in the past, only for things to change and these to be seemingly now out of reach. Instead some of their own seats they though were safe, are now at risk because they didn't pay attention to them.

They might well get some of the 'outliers' that they initially targeted, but it could well be at the expense of others they assumed rather arrogantly were in the bag.

This would make for a night of really big surprises for both parties. However I think this is probably where we are at and what we will get. Weird things are happening that were not predicted.

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HashiAsLarry · 02/06/2017 18:30

Whilst Britain is regressing back to open hatred - ROI, much maligned for its backwards views, look set to have an openly gay pm

Gumpendorf · 02/06/2017 18:31

If the Tory party are sufficiently disappointed by May's performance and the GE result, they might want to cull her.

Immediately after an unnecessary election that began as the Theresa May party election? Surely they wouldn't be so cynical?!

There is nothing to stop them getting away with it, of course.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 02/06/2017 18:31

They might well get some of the 'outliers' that they initially targeted, but it could well be at the expense of others they assumed rather arrogantly were in the bag.

That goes for Labour too.

Reasonably safe Labour seat here but could go. There has been no campaigning here. All poured into marginal next door. Have had plenty of LibDem and Tory canvassing.

Labour could keep the marginal and lose this. They didn't even turn up for hustings. They also aren't particularly well liked so that won't carry them through either.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 18:33

Meanwhile, Ireland looks set to have a gay PM.

LurkingHusband · 02/06/2017 18:34

Posted too soon ..

Meanwhile, Ireland looks set to have a gay PM.

Is the NI/Ireland border some sort of weird mirror ? When the Irish appear progressive, and the UK regressive ?

Zxyzoey31 · 02/06/2017 18:35

I am not far off Bigchoc, I think the cons will get at least 50 seats, probably 75. I think when it comes to the moment when people are putting the cross on the ballot paper that strong and stable message will influence a substantial number. Particularly in such uncertain times.

Labour's manifesto contains many things voters have historically had a strong aversion to. I just can't see it delivering voters unless the young actually vote in force which they always fail to do.