So the good times are about to roll....are they?

[herethereandeverywhere]

I wanted to ask on another thread, but they are all bunfight-y.

I am a remainer so I feel very depressed about today. I would like some reassurance from brexiters about what I have to look forwards to.

I'm afraid 'taking back control' isn't clear enough to me, so an explanation of what will be different if that's the theme you will go for.

So far, since the vote, my family has lost £10,000s and my husband's current job/role has been placed in jeopardy. I have probably lost the ability to automatically continue to work in an EU country in under 2 years time (I currently live in Germany, though this was intended to be temporary). I have dear friends relocating out of London since the banks are shifting jobs due to Brexit so I'm not sure who I would be moving back to. My house is worth less and I'm less likely to be able to sell it if I do want to move. I'll need to get the kids Irish passports if I want them to benefit from the EU.

So cheer me up - we're set for a brighter future aren't we? What can I look forwards to?

I would also like some sensible answers when it comes to Brexit.

And I'm worried for the core services of our country. The politicians are getting away with completely destroying the NHS, social care and education because of the Brexit distraction. By the time anyone realises, it will be too late.

So there better be a bloody good outcome. However the cynic in me says that's theresa May is similar to David Cameron. She's pushing ahead with Brexit for personal political reasons - to make herself look good. She's hardly visionary

Did you know that the EU has actively moved our industries to create jobs in other EU countries? For example, Twinings in recent years was moved to poland due to an EU grant unnecessarily. This won't happen again.

Did you know that the EU has actively moved our industries to create jobs in other EU countries?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tea-firm-twinings-stripped-of-10million-132619

tea firm Twinings has been stripped of a £10million grant because it is sacking British workers and moving to Poland.

European Commission chiefs axed the taxpayer-funded award after Euro MPs argued it was being used to subsidise the “export of UK jobs”.

Agreed! This exactly demonstrates an active EU policy of moving British jobs to other EU countries.

Cutie There are many plans in place to move business activities out of the country as a result of Brexit, and most significantly in all the activities that make us money and enable us to be competitive in the global economy, financial and other services (70% of the economy) high tech engineering, science and tech, the knowledge economy and the creative industries. My DH's job for one. I asked you the question elsewhere what plans or model you propose for the economy that enables us to compete in global markets after we have damaged all these sectors by depriving them of the benefits (the passport etc.) of EU membership. Like all leavers you left the debate at that point. Neither tea or jam is going to do it....

You won't get sensible answers as there aren't any, it is a massive huge gamble led by a PM who has a very divided country and has done nothing to address the fact that nearly half the country didn't want this and pretty much insulted half the country, further stoking the divide. Nothing is being done to address the issues that have led many parts of the UK to vote to leave and I doubt they will because as long as the Conservatives win the next election they don't give a shit.

Most of us are stood around trying to be rational about it all, taking on board democracy, being incredulous at the reaction towards the Judges in the Gina Miller case which was when a number Leavers and the Press got what they wanted, sovereignty and then decided actually they did't like it. That's just a taste of what is to come.

It's a bit like the Emperor's new clothes, we all can see it is a absolute disaster but are stood around vainly hoping we aren't actually losing the plot and it is more rational than it appears. Well it isn't, it is the biggest thing to happen to this country post war and may well lead to the break up of the uk. Our children's adult future has been traded on a gamble. It is utter bullshit and I think people studying this in the future will be utterly incredulous.

Remainers only think of their own. Being in the EU has not benefited large parts of the UK. It has in fact destroyed communities all in the name of profit. Brexit means that the rich will now feel what it's like to be marginalized.

The rich will be fine. They can move their money around and profit enormously from Brexit volatility. The Telegraph has been advising its readers recently on how they should be taking their investments out of the U.K. and into the rest of Europe to avoid negative risk.

It's the people on low wages and those who rely on public services who will suffer. If you think the EU is responsible for inequality, why do you think it is so much worse in the UK than in most European countries?

Poisonous The economic prosperity of large parts of the U.K. was destroyed by successive governments from Thatcher onwards. It was Thatcher who refocused the economy from manufacturing to services, destroying the economies of whole swathes of the country and it was successive governments who then decided not to invest the wealth generated in building the economies, and supporting shattered communities. The EU has invested large amounts in doing exactly that in disadvantaged parts of the country. After Brexit the government shows no signs of changing tack in spite of the rhetoric. It will continue to make sure that the rich elites and its southern voters are happy and ignore the rest of the country, and those communities will realise it really could get worse.....

Releasethebats - lots of reasons, yes but people have been able to put forward counter arguments to all of them

I think this sums up the threads and threads about this, including this one.

So a leaver gives their reasons for voting leave.

A remainer then argues against these reasons.

And this means "people have been able to put forward counter arguments to all of them"

Leavers say things, remainers disagree. Remainers say things, leavers disagree. That's why they voted different ways

If you really can't get your head round the concept that if you disagree on a political issue, that doesn't mean you are right and the other person is wrong, it means you disagree, then there is really no point you trying to engage leavers in discussion.

Just as an example of the tendency of some remainers to believe they are the fount of all wisdom and have the right to disregard the reasons leave voters put forward for their vote, you can also find threads in the EU referendum topic on such subjects as

"Article 50 is never going to be triggered now"

"Brexit lite, here we come"

and so on. Who knew? Not everything a remainder says is always correct

You can also find threads where remainers, in a very unpleasant, bullying style, berate leavers for thinking that Brexit will have any effect on freedom of movement

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670430-To-be-furious-if-this-is-true-the-freedom-of-movement

and other threads berating leavers because all EU nationals are going to be "cruelly deported"

with the particularly interesting and amusing cross-over period when we were simultaneously being told both (that Brexit will not reduce EU immigration and that EU nationals were all going to be sent packing) at the same time

So excuse me if I don't think that remainers agreeing with leavers reasons for voting leave somehow invalidates those reasons and excuse me for not wanting to get into a discussion about my reasons with pp who display that attitude.

disagreeing not agreeing obvs

Release I think the op was asking for benefits not reasons

Reasons are easy. Tangible benefits? That's where the house of cards falls down

So back to the benefits

I agree with the majority of release post

Benefits?

Release And this is another new Leave tactic, shut down debate by saying that Remainers are debating and representing their point of view, which may not always in a period of uncertainty be quite on the mark, and some of them get emotional, and personal, therefore everything they say is to be ignored. The country is headed in a direction which will have negative consequences, even the government is highlighting that, and many of us are experiencing it. Op is not talking about uncertainty, and neither am I. You cannot silence people who are highlighting inconvenient truths by attacking those doing the arguing rather than their arguments (and those arguing for Leave are guilty of exactly the same behaviour, perhaps given there are some regular leave goaders who simply make personal attacks and never represent any sort of argument, worse) . In a normal democratic society people with different points of view do debate and air the evidence for their points of view and that allows others to evaluate those points of view and reach their own conclusions. There are many lurkers on both sides of the debate on the Westminsterenders thread who do exactly that.

There are some Leave voters who earn respect on these threads by continuing to debate their point of view too.

Thankyou for those links release.
I will say that it was refreshing how polite people were on that first thread in response to a leaver who actually laid out their reasons.

Reasons is the past. Wasn't OP asking what we have to look forward to in the future?

Yes what will be delivered. Ie in business parlance the benefits

Remainers only think of their own. Being in the EU has not benefited large parts of the UK. It has in fact destroyed communities all in the name of profit. Brexit means that the rich will now feel what it's like to be marginalized.

Did the EEC tell Mrs Thatcher to destroy the coal mining industry?

Don't kid yourself that the rich will know what it feels like to be marginalised. Cameron made an utter shambles of the Referendum - is he suffering financially?

Who is this 'my own'? Humans?

I think there are few positives apart from (hopefully) seeing less of Farage on television.
I think the most affected will be the very people who voted to leave as they were sold falsehoods. The poor will suffer most.
It will decimate the NHS, care and hotel industry, agriculture and retail.
Prices will rise, inflation is likely to rocket.
Working conditions will worsen for many.
Public sector cuts will continue.
Immigration will remain at same level from outside Europe.
We'll be a tiny island without the wealth and power we once had and will lose our global voice.
China/middle east will dominate us and invest in short term for their long term control. Kuwait already owns more of London than the Church of England!
There will be a breakdown in GFA due to tensions of increased poverty.
Scotland might well leave us for Europe.
Sorry I can't provide any reassurance.

We've been down the 'reasons' route countless times on various threads.

'Reasons' don't matter now.

What matters is what we are going to end up with and why it's going to be worth it.

There has yet to be a single poster on here who makes any attempt to address the issue of the consequences of Brexit.

They only ever talk about 'what they want' which is generally an intangible feeling about sovereignty anyway.

I was one who thought we were heading for Brexit lite originally but TM has asserted her vision of Brexit on everyone which is the whole problem- Leave only won by a narrow margin and we are constantly being told they are not a homogenous group which means not even the majority of those who voted wanted to head in the direction we are going let alone a majority of the population.

The divide is getting worse because no attempt is being made to bridge it- TM didn't even bother copying her A50 letter to the devolved parliaments until the 11th hour- that is just another example of how little this government thinks of anything and anyone but themselves.

"Who is this 'my own'? Humans?"

Yes quite. (And possibly great crested newts.)

I think TM and the thickos will try and push things through very quickly so the people don't feel the impact too soon.

But it will only take a couple of riots for it to all go tuts up

Tits up!