So the good times are about to roll....are they?

[herethereandeverywhere]

I wanted to ask on another thread, but they are all bunfight-y.

I am a remainer so I feel very depressed about today. I would like some reassurance from brexiters about what I have to look forwards to.

I'm afraid 'taking back control' isn't clear enough to me, so an explanation of what will be different if that's the theme you will go for.

So far, since the vote, my family has lost £10,000s and my husband's current job/role has been placed in jeopardy. I have probably lost the ability to automatically continue to work in an EU country in under 2 years time (I currently live in Germany, though this was intended to be temporary). I have dear friends relocating out of London since the banks are shifting jobs due to Brexit so I'm not sure who I would be moving back to. My house is worth less and I'm less likely to be able to sell it if I do want to move. I'll need to get the kids Irish passports if I want them to benefit from the EU.

So cheer me up - we're set for a brighter future aren't we? What can I look forwards to?

Trouble is the ground is being quite carefully laid for the EU to take the blame when things go tits up. My guess is that when the riots start it won't be anti-Brexit mobs throwing the bricks.

100,000 remainers marched in London on Saturday and I have never been in a crowd that felt more peaceful and non-confrontational. Meanwhile Farage is doing his best to encourage his followers to feel angry and betrayed if immigration doesn't fall...

I'm not so sure.....pretty hard to motivate the home counties to riot and every far right march recently has shut down by anti facists

It's the young that riot historically. The young that don't want this. The young that will feel the brunt of it The young that have friends from all nationalities.

Hard to twist that one

That is true

Well having read some of the answers on the thread links that were posted about why people voted to leave, I can accept that some leave voters had some good reasons for voting leave, or had extensively researched the background etc. However, saying that I'm still not convinced. I can't get my head around it. But it's happening now, so I guess May and her government and all the leave voters will have to make it work now.

A bit of a tangent but I've just read the whole thread and the mention of the potential return to blue passports near the beginning got me thinking. I am 32 and have never had a blue passport. For me, my passport has always been burgundy. I associate a burgundy passport with the UK and if we revert to blue then I will miss it - it will seem wrong to me.

I understand others who are older than me may have the same feelings about blue passports. That's totally reasonable. But I get the feeling that since Brexit the views of those who are harking back to how things used to be are the only ones that are legitimate. People who have a different, more modern, view of Britain and what British identity means don't seem to count.

To me EU membership, freedom of movement, even burgundy passports are a central part to my British experience growing up and is a key part to my British identity. The fact that people like us might be about to lose the idea of Britain that we have grown up with has been either ignored or derided. Our experiences and understanding of what it means to be British are being dismissed as never really 'proper' British-ness anyway.

The question is who are they going to make it work for?

Omg! I read about the whole blue passport, bring back the death penalty thing. It's shocking really to me personally, as I DGAF about blue passports and I'm against the death penalty!

I don't think that Farage and UKIP are finished yet, unfortunately. They are the ones most likely to benefit from a collapse in living standards, because they will be the ones making the biggest promises, and shouting at the easiest scapegoats.

If the shit does hit the fan, many leavers will not blame it on Britain leaving the EU, because that would involve blaming themselves, and human beings don't like doing that very much. The far right will have some suggestions on who to blame though.

I am worried that there may be a number of voters who hold socially conservative (if not economically conservative) views, who would never vote Conservative in a general election due to the policies of previous governments (Thatcher etc). What worries me is that I don't know how many people there are like this, because in previous elections they have either voted Labour, or not voted at all.
I think that these are the people UKIP are targeting when they say they want working class votes. These people don't even necessarily have to be extremely right wing, just driven to the right by economic hardship and sucked in by empty promises and rhetoric. You can see on other threads that when Leave voters think they've been lied to, they blame Remainers "for running a shit campaign", and conventional politicians for betraying them.

I am worried that Farage, Banks, and the nastiest parts of the leave campaign will emerge from the shit storm they caused clean and shiny.

It will work for the rich mainly non British men who will now have care blanche to fuck our country over buying all the assesses they can

Time to bend over UK and take what's coming...Actually England and Wales cos there ain't gonna be a UK

Assets mind you assess also works

Sandsnake, I'm a similar age to you and feel exactly the same about the passports!
I don't intend to spend the next few decades moaning about the colour of my passport though.

I think that these are the people UKIP are targeting when they say they want working class votes.

However, they have had three by elections now, and despite the non-stop publicity for Farage and UKIP they haven't done well in any of them. They should have done well in Sleaford, but came a very poor second. Sleaford could have been viewed as UKIP Central, so that was the one they should have been giving the Tories a run for their money for. They were supposedly the front runners for Stoke, and admittedly chose a candidate who made a fool of himself, so again came second. They can no longer muster an MP. The sort of people that UKIP would appeal to tend not to vote. UKIP hasn't got the organisation to get the vote out.

Farage is quite likely to leave the country - so I wouldn't be sure that he will emerge clean and shiny.

No me either! It's just it struck me as the whole Brexit argument boiled down really - like a whole swathe of people's experiences of Britishness are somehow invalid because they are at odds with the Leavers' version.

That is true, Peregrina.
I'm just feeling pessimistic this morning - obviously I hope that wont come to pass, and it may not be very likely, but it's still something I worry about.

If you ask older people why they voted out, most will say 'back in the 70s we voted for a common market, not for a political union'

People mostly voted for Brexit due to Political reasons not for economic ones.

Every Brexiter i know believed there would be an economic hit from leaving.

No one was expecting economic nirvana, actually the opposite, we were expecting an economic slowdown for several years while the economy adjusts.

Out voters desperately wanted out of the Political nonsense that is the EU.

Remainers only think of their own. Being in the EU has not benefited large parts of the UK. It has in fact destroyed communities all in the name of profit. Brexit means that the rich will now feel what it's like to be marginalized.

OK. So we're talking reasons again here. And you're wrong on those for a start.

So, do tell me, how are places like West Wales and the Valleys (one of the areas eligible for Convergence EU Structural funds, meaning that it's GDP is below 75% of the EU average) going to benefit from Brexit?

Just to make it clear, this is an area rich in natural resources. Used to be thriving, full employment. Decimated by Thatcher, and domestically seriously unfunded by Westminster through the Barnett formula. Structural funds enabled investment into infrastructure (e.g. improvements to the Heads of the Valleys road), apprenticeship schemes, new colleges and yes a few frivolous things to make life a bit less shit.

Do we have to trust the government to make up for this? The goverment who have been happy to let the Barnett formula run and run, meaning that we are one of the poorest regions in Europe (I remember when Structural funds switched from the old Objective 1,2,3 to the new Convergence/Competitativeness model, and the expectation was that with the new member states coming on board we'd no longer be eligible, but no, still one of the poorest).

The EU was addressing the inequalities, not causing them.

So I ask you - how is Brexit going to benefit these regions? And I'm aware they voted out.

It is an odd thing, the communist streak in leavers like southall. What matters is that the wealthier and more aspirational are squished. Job done. There is no need for the poor actually to become more prosperous.

So....let me clean my ears out. We don't need to understand the benefits as leavers voted out for political not economic reasons

Never heard of 'its the economy stupid'. All political reasons are economical

Taking control = control of the budgets
Reducing immigrants = jobs from the British

What political reasons are NOT economic. I can only think if the racist ones

"an economic slowdown for several years whilst the economy adjusts"
is probably the best we can hope for southall.
Worst case scenario is a severe economic crisis and political instability.
The reality may well be between those two scenarios - so still pretty bad for people who are just about keeping their heads above the water at the moment.
Thousands of families may be plunged into poverty, our public services will face further cuts and the deficit which was so painful to reduce will increase again. For Vague "Political reasons."

poorboy, I think that "unelected beurocrats" and "red tape" comes under "political reasons".

If you ask older people why they voted out, most will say 'back in the 70s we voted for a common market, not for a political union'

As one who did vote in the 1975 referendum, but not a Leave voter, most people voted In that time, (when we were already in the EEC don't forget), not for any noble reasons but because Harold Wilson was a much much cannier politician than Cameron. He knew what answer he would get. The political union was always a longer term aim - to tie the countries involved together so much that they wouldn't countenance waging war on each other again.

corcory I see you are reassured by May's stance on workers' rights. Do you have a view on the attack on those rights in the Trade Union Act 2016, or on her refusal to cut the tribunal fees they introduced in 2013 that equate, in most cases, to the monetary 'value' of the workers' rights she promises to 'preserve' during her term in office?

Very naive to pay no attention to enforcement and to reality. Her speech on 'workers rights' is embarrassing window dressing to keep you happy. It works if you have incomplete knowledge and are attracted by soundbites that tell you what you want to hear. Look a bit closer.

Squishy. Hhmmmm Except they are also economic. Unelected assumes you have no power to control the decisions they make that affect the direction of your country and it's economy

Red tape is synomous with additional time and cost to get anything done

Am still interested in the leavers 'political reasons'..but far far more interested in benefits.

In the tangible. You see the proof is in the pudding

Maybe, if we lower publicly funded wages (public sector and outsourced public service workers) we will be better placed to compete with the rest of the EU. Many leavers will see this as a 'benefit'.

We could have done this before, of course, but maybe brexit will provide the political excuse for cutting - as opposed to freezing - hourly rates. I'm not talking National Living wage. I'm talking publicly funded workers currently earning above the national living wage.

Actually, that's the whole point of the Trade Union Act - to break unions' ability to negotiate decent pay for publicly funded workers.

It's started already.

Well yes, poorboy. I was trying to guess what she could mean by "political" that wasn't linked to immigration. And even then, most concerns over immigration are economic, except for the concerns over immigrants changing "the look" of a country, which takes us back towards racist ground again.