So the good times are about to roll....are they?

[herethereandeverywhere]

I wanted to ask on another thread, but they are all bunfight-y.

I am a remainer so I feel very depressed about today. I would like some reassurance from brexiters about what I have to look forwards to.

I'm afraid 'taking back control' isn't clear enough to me, so an explanation of what will be different if that's the theme you will go for.

So far, since the vote, my family has lost £10,000s and my husband's current job/role has been placed in jeopardy. I have probably lost the ability to automatically continue to work in an EU country in under 2 years time (I currently live in Germany, though this was intended to be temporary). I have dear friends relocating out of London since the banks are shifting jobs due to Brexit so I'm not sure who I would be moving back to. My house is worth less and I'm less likely to be able to sell it if I do want to move. I'll need to get the kids Irish passports if I want them to benefit from the EU.

So cheer me up - we're set for a brighter future aren't we? What can I look forwards to?

In my area we voted Leave because of immigrants. There is no nice way of putting it. We hoped that Brexit = No Forriners

Well we could make strawberry jam except that we won't have anybody to pick the strawberries.

For goodness sake. Read cardinal's post? Why do people think that wrt Brexit, the normal rules of conversation don't apply?

And I am not making an excuse. I'm telling you the reason. You seemed genuine OP (starting to wonder now given your responses) and I thought you might find an explanation of the reason for the lack of takers useful.

I don't understand what people get out of the goading and baiting. I've been discussing Brexit on MN for nearly a year, with leavers and remainers. The fact that a lot of posters on this thread (not all) haven't and the timing of this thread, does make me wonder if some of you are just looking for leavers to take out some of your anger on. The responses to my posts would suggest that (and tbh if you really want to understand the reasoning of leavers on MN, there are plenty of old threads you can read) . I'll leave you to it.

Fish and chips. That's the answer. Just heard it on o radio phone in. We will be able to catch more fish so fish and chips will be cheaper.
Oh and the strawberry jam of course.
Obvious if you think about it.

Then respond to the OP and ignore me.

I doubt you will, because you've got f-all to say.

Fish and chips. That's the answer. Just heard it on o radio phone in. We will be able to catch more fish so fish and chips will be cheaper.

It might be cheaper I suppose because if, as some fishermen might believe, we are instantly going to scrap all quotas, there will soon be no fish left! . So a meal of just chips would be cheaper if we can get someone to pick the potatoes.

We have to behave ourselves otherwise we'll get no answers. For goodness sake, we must just grow up and be rational, sensible and constructive

Five pages in and there still hasn't been a single credible answer from a Brexiter.

I suspect that most of them know really that the whole Brexit campaign was just a lot of hot air. Gullible people were sucked in.

Yes the smart leave voters know they have been scammed.

I think it depends on what industry you are in. Fishing seems like an obvious candidate for resurgence. The loss of fishing industry did affect a lot of coastal communities.

I was also wondering about whether we could somehow compete with Rotterdam to have a major hub port for Europe or maybe more than one. Rotterdam Is very congested, and we are closer to the Atlantic. Southampton for example has 3 high tides which might give a physical edge, but we'd need to invest in more infrastructure.

Will farmers benefit? Presumably if they can still have access to skilled pickers? Tbh I'm not really sure what the common agricultural policy was about but thought it favoured the French somehow?

I suspect we'll get to decide on what economic policies will truly benefit the uk and not all members of EU. Play to our strengths and compete for business.

I think a lot of my worry is not necessarily brexit (and yes it does worry me) but an incompetent government and woeful opposition. The EU has meant we haven't really stood on our own 2 feet for some time.

I'm sorry but I don't buy the mantra brexit automatically means sudden death spiral of our way of life.

This country and much of the west has seen a drop in standards of living since 2007 and don't think brexit should be blamed for that. It's lazy and let's politicians off the hook. For too long the west was living the good life on the poverty and cheap labour of poor nations in the east and Africa. As their economies grow and they start to be treated with more respect its only natural and fair our standards of living even out. I don't like it but the EU certainly has some major economic problems, and it may well be all sunshine and rainbows in Germany, Holland etc it's not the same for Greece or Portugal.

Release, regardless of any insults you may have received, please, surely it should be really easy to point out the benefits of Brexit. The 'moaners are supposed to be the delicate snowflakes, remember?

I'm a little concerned that last night in her interview with Andrew Neil, May said immigration probably wouldn't drop. In January this year, she said reducing immigration was a very important issue.

Also her letter to the EU was slightly threatening with regards the sharing of security information if the EU didn't comply with her demands. Putting everyone at risk.

Regardless of whether Brexit is a good idea or not, I have so very little faith in the negotiating abilities of May, Davis etc.

Plus we may lose Scotland.

It's really great, isn't it? Isn't it?

Well, pretty much 12 hours in and I'm still not attracting any answers.
Come on - we've been asking this for nine months now, and virtually no one can think of a good reason! The Telegraph hasn't been able to give any sensible answers either.

I think once someone managed to come up with an EU law about fishing for sea bass quotas, not realising that this particular piece of EU legislation was sponsored by the UK to prevent overfishing.

The only positive I can see, (which may well depend on your own outlook, others seeing it as a huge negative) is the possibility of a United Ireland. Which I think Sinn Fein will push for for 2022 to commemorate 100 years of Irish Independence.

You may be on to something there, peregrina. Since the majority in NI voted Remain, joining with the Republic of Ireland would immediately convey EU membership to all NI citizens. It would also remove the problem regarding the North/South border.
But, could all those years of conflict be cast aside peacefully ?.... Hmm, I don't think so, bit I guess we shall see ...

Release, I've been discussing this on MN for nearly a year as well. And in that year, I've waited patiently for a Leave voter to give me one reason why Brexit is a good idea. You know what? No one has. Why isn't it easy? Why aren't you shutting me down with a bullet pointed list of all the benefits it will bring us? I've been polite, I've listened, but nothing has materialised and it leaves me thinking that there simply are no advantages to Brexit.

The only motivations I've seen pushed for Brexit ARE the stupid (sovereignty! Wait - House of Lords who??) or racist - send 'em all back! Leavers have been taking offence at being branded as stupid and racist because they are on the same side as crushingly stupid racists but instead of distancing yourselves from them, you go oh well, we can't engage because we're so insulted. Why not just say, no - here are all the great benefits Brexit will bring! Is it perhaps because...there aren't any?

Yes, I'm angry. Furious that our standard of living is about to drop again and drop further for NO tangible benefits, nothing at all. And Leavers have got nothing in their arsenal, nothing to offer in defence of what they have brought upon us. Not one, single, solitary reason that they can offer for this fucking disaster.

I'd say Release has hit the nail on the head.
No discussion, just insults which is why you won't get many people that voted leave on this thread.
Same as the actual vote, they all stayed quiet and just voted, because they were tired of the mud flinging.

Plus, leavers don't have to answer to you.

By the way, what I have taken on board in these months of debate is the explanations a lot of Leavers have given for why a lot of people voted Leave - on the basis that there are significant numbers of people who feel powerless, disenfranchised, ignored and frustrated so they voted out because it represented real change - similarly to a large proportion of Trump voters.

However, it is manifestly clear that Brexit, like Trump, will drive living standards down and increase the suffering and unhappiness so whilst it may give me a reason as to why some people voted the way they did, it doesn't tell me why Brexit is a good idea. Simply, inequality and poverty will increase, the poorest will be the hardest hit as always and people will be told it's their own fault because they voted for it.

I wondered why anyone wanted the job after Cameron legged it but it gives the Tories the chance to decimate the NHS and deliver austerity with a vengeance, all whilst pretending they are delivering 'the will of the people'.

Please, please tell me why I'm wrong and why Brexit will improve lives. Because I'd genuinely like to hear that. And the absence of a response to that question since the referendum campaigns began is pretty frightening.

Fact is, brexit voters gambled the UK's economic future (and now it would seem our actual existence) on a feeling, a feeling of sovereignty / control / whatever. The remain campaign tried to fight their view with sense but the 'feelings' won. It's totally mental

Simply, inequality and poverty will increase, the poorest will be the hardest hit as always and people will be told it's their own fault because they voted for it.

Yes, that's what saddens me today. In all the coverage today the people who have been supporting Brexit have had perfectly legitimate concerns about things that are wrong in the country -they're just not things that Brexit will improve. Zero-hours contracts keep coming up - well, hey we could abolish those tomorrow if we wanted to. The Housing Crisis - did the EU stop us building council houses for the last forty years?

I wouldn't worry about the few shouting on Facebook who will continue to cheer on "sovereignty" as they head for the dole queue. Worry what happens when all the many quiet and non-racist Leave voters start to wonder why no improvements are happening.

captain I completely agree with your last 2 posts.

It is beyond tedious that Leavers continue to use the 'I could tell you but I chose not to because you just insult us' tact.

You can ask your question as politely as you like OP- it won't get answered.

Leavers always revert back to claims of insults even when others are simply asking for clarity on some vague rhetoric that has been posted.

The fact is they really can't give any tangible benefits which even begin to outweigh the consequences simply because there aren't any.

For he last 9 months they've simply decided not to think about or care about those consequences.

It'll be interesting to watch that change now as it's clear TM isn't going to get her own way in negiotiations; Angela Merkels comment about not allowing trade negiotiations in parallel with divorce talks is just the first of many blows we will be dealt.

TM's supreme arrogance so far will be her, and therefore our, downfall. We are not going to get our own way on the big ticket items, we are not going to have anything close to the benefits we currently get from being part of the EU and all our lives will be poorer, in most cases quite literally, for it.

Here's a view from the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/brexit-lifetime-opportunity-sweep-away-red-tape-free-britains/

Notice the lack of specifics. Except that we "could" abolish VAT on fuel bills. Of course Ruth Lea, prominent Brexiteer, said on Radio 5 that this was very unlikely because actually the government can't afford to lose that amount of revenue.

Leavers always revert back to claims of insults even when others are simply asking for clarity on some vague rhetoric that has been posted.

Agreed! It's the same pattern over and over. At best we get broad platitudes, then if asked for clarification or if it's pointed out that this won't improve or isn't the fault of the EU, the immediate reaction is accusations of hounding or being insulted.

I particularly enjoyed the thread where several pp tried to explain (exasperatedly) that somebody had their maths wrong and they flounced off complaining about being attacked. Yup, disagreeing that 2+2 does not = 5 is now a heinous insult.

Then we have the trump card "We don't have to answer you!" - um, yes. That's understood, because it's an Internet forum not the Spanish Inquisition. But, because it's an Internet forum and not the Spanish Inquisition, others are then free to comment on said lack of answers.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2671336-Why-I-Voted-to-Leave-the-EU

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2665989-The-Left-wing-case-for-Brexit

ReleaseTheBats - that reminds me of a line from Pulp Fiction .... that's all you had to say (do)

I'm going to read that now.