To think this could mean the end of brexit?

[jdoe8]

Now MPs will be able to block it. Could this be the end of this ridiculous brexit? MPs can not vote for something that they think will not be in peoples interest and its very clear the people that voted to brexit would be the ones worse off.

JO'B is doing a fab job on LBC today and most brexiters seem to be happy that it might not go ahead as they were fooled by lies!

I do think that one problem people faced is that it was hard to find a neutral source of information during the referendum unless you already knew a fair bit about Government. Like a PP I am a lawyer so I have studied constitutional law and have a working interest in the legislative process.
People without that sort of foundation may not know where to start to cut through the spin on both sides.

No, they don't and that is the fault of successive Governments but most especially the fault of this Tory Government for running this idiotic referendum.

But equally surely people are responsible for actually finding out some simple facts before running away with a strong opinion...

Seems to be out of fashion to actually know what you are talking about nowadays and people are far to comfortable with bullshit spoken with confidence. Where has critical thinking gone?

Peregrina

I don't think all that many people actually have a clue about what sovereignity means - it was just a soundbite in the campaign.

Yes, one of those soundbites, like 'democracy', that they all recite on rote until it slaps them in the face and you throw it back at them.

I think a lot of people don't appreciate the distinction between Parliament and The Government, although they know that one side (usually) wins in an election.

I was trying to make that point without being too patronising. It's hard though isn't it?

My point about responsibility is that is inexcusable to read the Daily Mail and vote how it tells you to.

Nicely concise. That's kind of what I was getting at but much more direct

Same...

What was the debate like here prior to the vote?

I confess that I was on reddit for most of it.

I think people want other people to make decisions for them nowadays

But not on the referendum

I know what you mean, my elderly neighbour said she saw my remain sign and voted on the basis of that because 'if offred is voting remain it must be the right thing' which made me feel a bit uncomfortable really but TBF she is elderly and disabled and was quite stressed and confused by the magnitude of the decision and I also suspect she was just being lovely and probably had thought about it a lot herself anyway.

I avoided any debate on it for fear of rage!

Did campaign for remain in the community though. Just can't be trusted on tinterwebs...

Totally agree Chazs

If we're ever going to have another referendum on anything there needs to be a debate run like something between a parliamentary committee and a judicial inquiry with evidence provided on oath and a widely-publicised website containing all relevant documents and video evidence provided by the campaigners.

This dirty scrum of lies and obfuscation can't be allowed to ever happen again.

Or we could just never elect the fucking irresponsible tories again who basically fucked the country for the sake of trying to resolve differences within their own party.

This dirty scrum of lies and obfuscation can't be allowed to ever happen again.

Agreed, but meanwhile we still have Farage bobbing up on the television most nights it seems, inciting insurrection, and apparently getting away with it.

I suspect our politics might differ slightly Offred. I really quite liked the coalition, although not the actual balance if you see what I mean.

For the last few days I've been thinking that some sort of (unholy) alliance is the only way forward for the country in the short term. What else is sensible? An all-embracing coalition, even including Sinn Fein, is the only way forward isn't it?

Not much to do with politics really, though I'm sure they do, more just that the reason all this has happened is because the Tories played with the country to try and resolve internal divisions and have fucked the country as a result.

Whatever party did that should be punished at the ballot box.

An all-embracing coalition, even including Sinn Fein, is the only way forward isn't it?

I think so myself. You would be very hard pressed to get Sinn Fein to take part since they don't take their seats. I think they are not prepared to take the oath. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

I think that's correct yes re Sinn Fein...

Think the future is in coalitions too TBH.

Motheroffourdragons

I see what you mean, and I really don't understand why it's like that.

Going back 20+ years we really had to accept what we read in the papers or saw on the news. Nowadays though, if I read a jaw-dropping Daily Mail (or Guardian (or Indy now, unfortunately)) headline I can just turn to Google and find out the truth - whether that's the Reuters report the headline is spun from or the Hansard record of a parliamentary debate or the actual wording of a law. We can all do it. I despair that people feel they're entitled to vote in something as important as this referendum based on the brainwashing effect of the popular media.

We can't actually hold the newspapers accountable though can we? What's the answer then?

Reform the commons and make regulatory bodies like IPSA stronger and less corrupt.

Too much acting in the interests of the party is going on. Not enough acting in the public interest.

MPs have a duty to act in the public interest but it is not enforceable in a meaningful sense ATM.

I think Sinn Fein might make an exception in this case. Unless they were playing a very, very long game.

It is ridiculous for example that with such a small majority this government has been able to get away with fucking the country in this way and for these reasons.

How do we Reform the Commons? You mean scrap FPTP? There is talk of them having to move out of the building whilst repair work is done. It would be good if they could decamp somewhere where a horseshoe shape was adopted and there were enough seats for all Members. They might find that they enjoyed a more collaborative style. May be not in the case of one T May.