To think this could mean the end of brexit?

[jdoe8]

Now MPs will be able to block it. Could this be the end of this ridiculous brexit? MPs can not vote for something that they think will not be in peoples interest and its very clear the people that voted to brexit would be the ones worse off.

JO'B is doing a fab job on LBC today and most brexiters seem to be happy that it might not go ahead as they were fooled by lies!

I have subscribed to Parliament so I get all the briefing docs by email. (this might make me a bit odd unusual)

I think people should be taught how Government works. It should be a compulsory subject in school not just covered off in one or two "citizenship" classes. The more people understand about the system the harder it is for politicians to present spin as fact and non binding votes as absolute authority.

Maybe that is a positive of this whole process that people are questioning more how things work and what politicians say.

I used to write Parliamentary Briefings. Long time ago.

I don't think you can blame people too much for taking the Government's leaflet at face value.

I see what you mean but I think it's the understanding of what 'Government' means that's the issue.

Most of us think of 'The Government' as being the people in charge of the country - the 'establishment' if you like. Reading between the lines it seems that it's a complete shock to some people that the Government can't just decide things and they happen, it depends on them being able to get them passed through Parliament on a majority vote.

Often the Government can rely on their majority to pass whatever they want through Parliament but it's by no means automatic - and that seems to be what people aren't grasping here.

Apologies for stating the bleeding obvious above but there seem to be a lot of people around who are suddenly interested in the mechanism of government and politics, when they only paid it cursory notice before.

I'm trying to think of parallels between the Government-issued leaflets and booklets 'promising' that they would implement the outcome of the referendum and other leaflets issued by the Government and their various department.

My mind's gone a bit blank on individual examples but I know there have been many times in the past where Government leaflets and advice on various subjects - from Income Tax to speed limits to benefits claims to VAT etc. - have been at odds with the actual legal position. Isn't this just the same thing?

Do we take Budget documents at face value for example? If the Budget Red Book (hope I got that right!) says "we're going to [whatever it was that they backed down on and then fudged]' and then there's either a popular uproar or the required legislation doesn't get passed, do we call it a subversion of democracy if the Government don't fulfill their promise? We don't, it's a pathetic administrative fail, that's all.

Excuse the rambling post, I'm a bit tired and emotional.

Ooh Memoires who are they aimed at??

Chazs where do I go to to subscribe?

Tuckers
This page is a good place to start.
www.parliament.uk/get-involved/

Also there is an email alerts link (top right) which allows you to subscribe.

Tuckers - I agree but ultimately there is no compulsory education about any of this stuff which forms the basis of citizenship really IMO. People would quite easily think the govt is a more reliable source than for example the sun.

Wasn't there a promise to raise the Inheritance Tax Threshold to £1 million, which people believed had been enacted by law, because it was talked about so much? I am not sure if it has been enacted even now, because it doesn't affect me personally.

Thanks Chazs , very useful.

And cycling the wrong way down one way streets peregrina! That never happened either, just media attention and loads of people think they are allowed to.

It would have been very easy for both sides of the debate to say, "we will have a think about the referendum and decide what we will do later".

Neither side did, we were told by both sides that they would enact the result. That is dishonest by the establishment. Its ridiculous to say, 'well parliament produced a document'. All politicians have lied to us.

Its ridiculous to say, 'well parliament produced a document'

Nobody's saying that though. It's "It's the law of the land, and the information was out there if you looked."

It's hardly surprising that nobody (normal) spotted things like that with all the shouting about PROJECT FEAR (and whatever was being thrown the other way) though.

Referendums need to be either banned forever or there needs to be some serious legislation about how they're conducted. In particular official spokesmen for the campaigns should be subject to prosecution for perjury if they deliberately lie.

"we will have a think about the referendum and decide what we will do later".

That would have been by far the most sensible course of action - to say, the country has expressed a slight preference for leaving the EU, we will see how this can be achieved. I was about to say the blatant lies would have come out, but the leaders of the Leave camp reneged on the NHS promise within hours of the result coming out, so they were found out immediately. On the Monday, in his Telegraph article Johnson was talking about EU citizens having the right to stay, and talking about staying in the single Market. More hot air, but par for the course for him. On the whole, he's much quieter now.

This is all too late now, and I really don't know what the solution will be. There is a huge task of reconciliation within the country needed, and almost no one seems capable of beginning this task. This is before we start any constructive negotiations with the EU.

Well that's not quite that simple is it?

Both sides assuring people that the result would be enacted by parliament is quite different to the government assuring people the result would be enacted in a leaflet sent to every household.

Referendums need to be either banned forever or there needs to be some serious legislation about how they're conducted. In particular official spokesmen for the campaigns should be subject to prosecution for perjury if they deliberately lie.

Yes to both these statements. I wish that the Government would stop prattling that 'the people have spoken' because with so many lies being told, no one really knows who said what.

Do you not think you maybe should take a little bit more responsibility for not knowing that parliament would need to act on the referendum vote given people have been banging on about parliamentary sovereignty for years re the EU supper?

Or did you just not know what parliamentary sovereignty meant?

Quite. "the people have spoken' does my fucking head in.

Excuse my anger.

Around a quarter of the UK population, many some of whom were influenced by liars, voted for something that many some of them didn't even understand.

Cos it does rather seem silly that people were all het up about the idea that parliament was not sovereign because of the EU, even though it was never the case, but now are het up about how unfair it is that parliament are sovereign over the referendum.

I think a lot of people don't appreciate the distinction between Parliament and The Government, although they know that one side (usually) wins in an election.

I don't think all that many people actually have a clue about what sovereignity means - it was just a soundbite in the campaign.

I was asking supper;

"Do you not think you maybe should take a little bit more responsibility for not knowing that parliament would need to act on the referendum vote given people have been banging on about parliamentary sovereignty for years re the EU supper?"

It how do you get her up about parliamentary sovereignty without know what it is?!

*but
And
*knowing

Bloody hell must be late