'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

They didn't cease to exist on 24th June.

I wonder if Leavers rather wish they had...

WW - yes I'm going to enjoy "marinating" tonight - thank you. And if you think that smacks of "vindictiveness" then you might have a point tonight

What I find incredibly scary about all this is that TM is actually right-for the very vast majority of Leavers it really is just about immigration.

That's why they're so devasted today, the realities of leaving have to be discussed and that means immigration can't and won't top trump everything else.

Bear, in fairness my post was NOT all about immigration, so stop trying to imply I'm some kind of idiot bigot!! I was simply explaining to you, as you had requested, why people did not feel hey could trust MPs to do right by them.

Thanks WW by the way.

I actually will go with the flow, whatever happens. I hope we leave, but if we don't, I have faith in the British and Northern Irish people to be ok!!! I just want my children to have prospects, inside or outside of the EU.

Lol marmite

MPs don't have the lived experiences of the ordinary working class men and women who are the ones suffering due to unregulated immigration, and who desperately hoped Brexit might put be some kind of solution. People simply don't trust MPs. However, no way will the referendum be overturned.

Which part of that wasn't about immigration lastgirl?

We get the MPs we deserve. If we engaged with the democratic system, if we understood the system, if we asked questions we might get MPs we could trust.

To show no interest in politics, no understanding of our constitution and then complain about MPs is breathtaking. They are our MPs. We are responsible, me and you and the electorate. If you don't like it, engage, join a party, start a party, stand for parliament but stop pointing the finger at everybody else.

Perhaps the part where MPs are not trusted? Where they don't have the lived experiences of working class people? Is that wrong??

Oooh.....yes, you wanted me to mention the part where I mentioned 'unregulated immigration' is causing the working class of Britain to suffer.

So what is wrong with that Bear??

Nothing lastgirl as long as you accept leaving the EU is about far more than just dealing with that.

Unfortunately most leavers can't see that.

Big News Today.
I am with Mango and feel its good to get any niggles out of the way now. This is a niggle, there is no chance Brexit won't happen.

Thing is Bear, what ever happens now 17 million people voted to leave the EU. If all those 17 million are racist with one thing on their mind ( controlling immigration ) do you really think EU citizens are going to want to come here now anyway?
Would you go to a party if you thought 17 million people didn't want you there, even if 15 million people did?

No one here is racist. Don't let it upset you too much

Well that's certainly not true, a poster here had their post deleted for racism. It's just that some don't recognise racism when it slaps them in the face.

there is no chance Brexit won't happen.

If there were a definition of Brexit that could be debated.

As it stands I think there's a very good chance that hard Brexit won't happen.

The bottom line is that Remainers are not trying to delay Brexit, they are trying to make sure it's given proper parliamentary scrutiny, but above all they're just trying to save the country.

Leavers who favour hard Brexit have no idea what the economic consequences will be. If they did they would understand why Remainers fight, they may even do so too.

If Hard Brexit means FOM then that it probably will happen.

Of course I see that!! Just don't imply I'm some kind of bigot when I am absolutely not!!! All I want, is for my children and your children, to have a good life and future!! But the EU is so corrupt and horrible, sometimes I think we might stand better on our own.

BUT.....I will go with whatever is decided by Parliament/Supreme Court. And I won't whinge about it!!!

Well you can say the same on the other side because no one can predict what will happen to the EU, Brexit has swamped our news but for years pre Ref its been dominated by one EU disaster after another. The EU is simply not a financial, success story.
Can you guarantee the financial security of the EU?

It don't get your point surfer

It was leavers who protested against immigration.

Damn right people don't feel welcome here- you told them they're not unless you think they serve a purpose and are here 'for the greater good'

Did you really think people would be flattered by you benevolently allowing them in to this country because they were 'good uns'

You'll solve any immigration problem by default- People won't want to come here now.

Would you go to a party if you thought people didn't want you there, even if 15 million people did?

No, and that's the problem. That doesn't just apply to immigrants it applies to research and investment across the board. And it doesn't just apply to EU countries it applies to the whole world.

Asia in particular is horrified by the racist belligerence and imbecility coming out of the U.K. at the moment. and if we lose their investment we're fucked.

but the EU is so corrupt and horrible

Can you tell us why?

Also why is it more so than the UK government?

Really Gloria? Asia is shocked by one of the most liberal inclusive, multi cultural success stories in the world is it ?

You do realise many minorities said they were terrified of the racism apparent in the EU? And many leading groups voted out?
The called the EU " The big white fortress"?

GloriaGaynor
A remain poster had a thread deleted only a week or so ago for blatant racist trolling.
She basically said all white people were lazy & dirty. One of the biggest shit stirring wankers I've ever seen on here & that's saying something.
She was a remainer.

Bear I struggle when people post such questions. Do you really not know why the EU may be perceived as corrupt?

autumn, I know why people perceive it as such but the realities dont support that.

The key factor for me is why you think the UK government is any better?