'The Brexit Arms' is now open. Friendly cosy pub with log fire for leavers & remainers to chat & ponder life, the universe, & Brexit.

[surferjet]

You are all most welcome

[Kaija]

No, not what I said at all. I haven't actually objected here to the referendum result being implemented. My objection is to the phrase "will of the people" being used to justify any manner of that implementation.

[WinchesterWoman]

Ssh Gloria grown ups are talking

[WinchesterWoman]

Really?ok

a majority doesn't matter as the expression of the wishes of the people (some remainers tm) because the vote is divided

But the same does not apply to elections of MPs?

[GloriaGaynor]

If I were you WW I'd admit you're way out of depth and go to bed.

[WinchesterWoman]

There's no such thing as the will of the constituents. A vote that is any way divided doesn't have the authority to require it to be acted on (according to you).

[GloriaGaynor]

It's not a Remain argument WW, it's merely an argument illustrating the weakness of your 'it wouldn't happen because it wouldn't' line.

Just a brief glance at 20th c history would show you the ignorance and naivety of 'it could never happen here'.

Not that you have ever studied history, clearly.

The point you are trying to evade of course, is were there to be a successful referendum on death penalty, you would not support parliament implementing it no questions asked, nor, on current form, is it likely to.

[Kaija]

I'm sure there must be some kind of logic in there WW but it's keeping itself well disguised - you're going to have to explain

[WinchesterWoman]

What if people vote for a bad person? Shouldn't someone else get the job because that would be better for everyone?

[Kaija]

And what you you mean by "no right to stand if the vote was divided"?

[WinchesterWoman]

But the vote is divided therefore why should it stand. Not all the constituents wanted them: so why should they get the job?

[Kaija]

Where did I say that exactly?

[WinchesterWoman]

Let's bear in mind now that thanks to kaija we know that an MP's position is not even the will of the constituents and she/he has no right to stand if the vote was at all divided.

[Kaija]

Winchester, MPs derive their position from the fact that they have been elected, obviously. Or by position do you mean stance?

[WinchesterWoman]

I think resorting to 'anything is possible' is one of the weaker remain arguments I've encountered. Gloria what do you think parliaments authority derives from?

[GloriaGaynor]

This is why there isn't a referendum on hanging, and any party that proposed one would not be elected. Likewise war with France or any other bizarre reducto

What? A party can propose it once in goverment. And who knows use the royal prerogative to push it though. In the crazy scenario that the country has been taken over by imbeciles and philistines, fucking up the economy, and pissing off the entire world, anything is possible. The correlation between support for Leave and support for the death penalty (David Davis I'm looking at you), has been noted.

You're presumably aware that some US states still have the death penalty.

[Mindtrope]

Likewise war with France or any other bizarre reducto you want to offer, like banning cars or forcing everyone to eat gorillas for breakfast. However leaving the EU is not on a par with any of those.

I disagree.

[WinchesterWoman]

Kaija in that case from what do MPs derive their position in parliament: if a divided vote does not represent the will of constituents?

[WinchesterWoman]

Bit I'm afraid I'm seeing a serious paucity of understanding in your posts.

Gloria in case you hadn't noticed an election was won on a promise of a referendum - it has passed two tests already. If there was a referendum on hanging then yes. This is why there isn't a referendum on hanging, and any party that proposed one would not be elected. Likewise war with France or any other bizarre reducto you want to offer, like banning cars or forcing everyone to eat gorillas for breakfast. However leaving the EU is not on a par with any of those. Please don't start off by suggesting it is. That would induce in me a sense of ennui from which I might never recover.

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

winchester

Good point well made

[Kaija]

There is no "will of the people". People do not will the same things.

If you want to talk about the will of the 25%/37%/52% that's fine.

It is not "the people".

[GloriaGaynor]

Seriously I need to work on not being a twat

Well I think we can all agree on that.

[WinchesterWoman]

Seriously I need to work on not being a twat

Obviously true fact is different from fact, there's a world of difference there

[GloriaGaynor]

Typo: my post should say 4% not 2^

[Bitofacow]

I can see why you would be adverse to typing fact.

[Bitofacow]

What I want or you want is irrelevant the system is what it is.

For instance, capital punishment, the majority of the public (until very recently) support it yet it is illegal because our 'representatives' made it so despite the will of the people.

That is the system in the UK. Fact.
The system Brexiters fought to retain. Fact.